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I'm probably still very uninformed about Japanese society (it's complex), but they are probably more prone to suicide than others. From what I understand there

by RWeaver 13y ago

I'm probably still very uninformed about Japanese society (it's complex), but they are probably more prone to suicide than others. From what I understand there is a huge emphasis on obligations to others, perfection, and the shame of failure. Traditional Japanese culture frowns on entrepreneurship, preferring obligation to a large corporation (who is in turn loyal to you), where it can sometimes be hard being so disconnected from the value you provide to society. Most of hacker news will be lucky in this regard. Despite the occasional existential crisis, as entrepreneurs we're self selected eternal optimists. Sadly not everyone turns out so lucky.

jpatokal 13y ago
Did you just suggest that Japanese are committing suicide because they can't be entrepreneurs? (o_O) In general, if you're wondering what causes high suicide rates, it's a lot more useful to look at societal motivators than race. As everywhere, there's a strong correlation between depression and suicide, and it's not hard to find the main causes. In Japan's particular case, the largest group committing suicide are the elderly, who have devoted their lives to their company and feel they have nothing left when they retire. The second-largest group is the unemployed, particularly those who have fallen into debt traps that very often ensnare family and friends as guarantors, with life insurance providing an "easy" way out. And the final group is students, who commit suicide to escape bullying or the immense pressure of their final exams.
- kenshiro_o 13y ago
  What I find shocking is life insurance companies paying out the family of the insured if he/she commits suicide. As far as I know, there is no such clause on life insurance contracts in the Europe (and I believe the U.S. as well). Surely , as one of the first steps towards reducing the suicide rate in Japan, insurance companies should stop incentivizing suicide.
  - pwim 13y ago
    In Canada and the US, it is common to not payout in the case of suicide within two years of creating the contract (the same as Japan).
    - toomuchtodo 13y ago
      When I was going through a dark period financially and emotionally, I specifically looked for life insurance policies that did not exclude suicide and had only a two year exclusion period. They do indeed exist in the US; I hold such a term life policy at the moment.
      - contingencies 13y ago
        Don't do it! As a quote I read yesterday illustrated: Be thankful for what you haven't, for it's less worry.
        toomuchtodo 13y ago
        Oh no no no no no, those plans are well past. I was just commenting that life insurance plans do exist where they pay out in the event of suicide (although they're conditional).
        meepmorp 13y ago
        > Don't do it! I get why you're saying this, but it bugs me when people tell those with an inclination to commit suicide to not do it. It's not your life, and your judgments about its current and future value are meaningless. The person living the life, and that person alone, can meaningfully judge the value of continuing to be alive. It's arrogant and dickish to tell a person about the value that continuing to live has, even if well intentioned, and doubly so in the case of a person you (likely) do not know.
        contingencies 13y ago
        Naturally, you are correct, when taken to logical extreme. However, the bread and butter of communication is assumption (shared meaning of words, etc.). It's probably fair to assume that most people within this community can look forward to some relative happiness and achievement in life, and I don't think it's bad to support one another in "powering through" bad times. I'm no hard-line pro-lifer: if my grandma asked me to help her suicide, like she quietly mentioned she might many years earlier as the two of us watched her mother die, I'd certainly consider it.
- ufmace 13y ago
  I think he's saying that their culture is very different from the American/Western European culture in some ways, which has nothing to do with race. That perhaps the elements of their culture that make them relatively prone to suicide are related to the ones that make them less interested in entrepreneurship.

by RWeaver 13y ago

jpatokal 13y ago

Did you just suggest that Japanese are committing suicide because they can't be entrepreneurs? (o_O) In general, if you're wondering what causes high suicide rates, it's a lot more useful to look at societal motivators than race. As everywhere, there's a strong correlation between depression and suicide, and it's not hard to find the main causes. In Japan's particular case, the largest group committing suicide are the elderly, who have devoted their lives to their company and feel they have nothing left when they retire. The second-largest group is the unemployed, particularly those who have fallen into debt traps that very often ensnare family and friends as guarantors, with life insurance providing an "easy" way out. And the final group is students, who commit suicide to escape bullying or the immense pressure of their final exams.

kenshiro_o 13y ago
What I find shocking is life insurance companies paying out the family of the insured if he/she commits suicide. As far as I know, there is no such clause on life insurance contracts in the Europe (and I believe the U.S. as well). Surely , as one of the first steps towards reducing the suicide rate in Japan, insurance companies should stop incentivizing suicide.
- pwim 13y ago
  In Canada and the US, it is common to not payout in the case of suicide within two years of creating the contract (the same as Japan).
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    When I was going through a dark period financially and emotionally, I specifically looked for life insurance policies that did not exclude suicide and had only a two year exclusion period. They do indeed exist in the US; I hold such a term life policy at the moment.
    - contingencies 13y ago
      Don't do it! As a quote I read yesterday illustrated: Be thankful for what you haven't, for it's less worry.
      - toomuchtodo 13y ago
        Oh no no no no no, those plans are well past. I was just commenting that life insurance plans do exist where they pay out in the event of suicide (although they're conditional).
      - meepmorp 13y ago
        > Don't do it! I get why you're saying this, but it bugs me when people tell those with an inclination to commit suicide to not do it. It's not your life, and your judgments about its current and future value are meaningless. The person living the life, and that person alone, can meaningfully judge the value of continuing to be alive. It's arrogant and dickish to tell a person about the value that continuing to live has, even if well intentioned, and doubly so in the case of a person you (likely) do not know.
        contingencies 13y ago
        Naturally, you are correct, when taken to logical extreme. However, the bread and butter of communication is assumption (shared meaning of words, etc.). It's probably fair to assume that most people within this community can look forward to some relative happiness and achievement in life, and I don't think it's bad to support one another in "powering through" bad times. I'm no hard-line pro-lifer: if my grandma asked me to help her suicide, like she quietly mentioned she might many years earlier as the two of us watched her mother die, I'd certainly consider it.
ufmace 13y ago
I think he's saying that their culture is very different from the American/Western European culture in some ways, which has nothing to do with race. That perhaps the elements of their culture that make them relatively prone to suicide are related to the ones that make them less interested in entrepreneurship.