19 ms·

Your snark is unnecessary and very misplaced. This will result in a significant thought paradigm shift in all things health-related, and it's a great thing tha

by clicks 13y ago

Your snark is unnecessary and very misplaced. This will result in a significant thought paradigm shift in all things health-related, and it's a great thing that a company with as many resources and as high of a profile as Google is looking into this. Google is a company that is making self-driving cars, providing incredibly fast internet to consumers, providing Internet to suffering areas with a new idea (the Loon), exploring definitively new ideas for hardware (Google Glass) -- and now they're looking into aging. I'd say Google guys are sufficiently more respectable than the political chameleon who's lobbying DC today [1], and just recently directed considerable resources on ads advocating a host of anti-environmental causes [2]. [1]: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/mark-zuckerberg-dc-96933.html http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/mark-zuckerberg-dc-969... [2]: http://thinkprogress.org/immigration/2013/04/26/1925921/mark-zuckerbergs-new-political-group-spending-big-on-ads-supporting-keystone-xl-and-oil-drilling/ http://thinkprogress.org/immigration/2013/04/26/1925921/mark...

jrockway 13y ago
He's making fun of the buzzwords, not the message itself. Frankly, if you think "catalyzing paradigms" is a good way to say something, I'd recommend taking an English literature class.
- dekhn 13y ago
  Err... catalyzing a paradigm change makes perfect sense to me. I think Thomas Kuhn might have used that in his book, "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions". A lit class isn't going to make any comment on a phrase like that, or management speak in general. Management speak is just a jargon.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > Management speak is just a jargon. Its mostly not. Jargon is specialized use of terms used to facilitate clear communication of ideas within a specific community/domain. Management speak -- at least the form that is often mocked -- is just using flowery language to conceal the absence of substance, and is pretty much the opposite of jargon.
    - dekhn 13y ago
      I disagree. I hear your complaint from many people, but I spend enough time talking to managers to understand what they mean, and I actually think there's content there.
      - dragonwriter 13y ago
        I spend a lot of time talking to managers, and most what they are saying isn't what people describe as "management speak" (which is, despite the phrase usually used to describe it, more the language of marketing and PR -- which, to be fair, managers frequently necessarily engage in and all too often are also victims of.) There is a jargon of management -- an array of terms with precise meanings in the field that are either not used outside of the field or are used outside with different meanings, and which facilitate clear communication in the domain. But that's really not what people are talking about when they are talking complaining about "management speak", which seems to be all about marketing/PR buzzwords which are used to create certain feelings while minimizing communication of clear commitments and detailed information, which are used by management either when they are acting to promote the business in marketing/PR role, or when they've been successfully snowed over by some vendor's or other industry player's marketing.
        sAuronas 13y ago
        All the talk of jargon while a paradigm has shifted... No doubt, you are all very smart (and literate) but the point was to notice how f^@k1ng big this is.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >Err... catalyzing a paradigm change makes perfect sense to me. I think Thomas Kuhn might have used that in his book, "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions". And I think he wouldn't have touched that phrase with a barge pole. >Management speak is just a jargon. No. Jargon comes out of necessity and field-specific needs. Management speak comes out of the desire to unecessarily dress-up bullshit.
    - dekhn 13y ago
      To catalyze something means to speed it up. So catalyzing a paradigm change means to make it happen faster. I don't see the problem with this. Could you be more specific?
      - coldtea 13y ago
        >To catalyze something means to speed it up. (...) I don't see the problem with this. Could you be more specific? The problem with this is that "make it happen faster" is already clear and sufficient. People understand it -- including people who don't have an idea what "catalyst" means (for me it's a totally transparent word, as its origin and etymology come from my language. YMMV). If you want to dress it up to make it sound more impressive, then you're not communicating effectively. And if you include 3-4 other unecessary buzzwords in the same sentense you're just name-dropping words. "I saw a very puissant pismire lifting 100 times its weight in a sweven yesterday". Do you see anything wrong with this sentense? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pismire http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pismire http://www.thefreedictionary.com/puissant http://www.thefreedictionary.com/puissant http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sweven http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sweven (Except if you're a chemist, and you use the word "catalyst" as it applies to your terminology)
        tedks 13y ago
        >The problem with this is that "make it happen faster" is already clear and sufficient. Do you only read Simple English wikipedia? It's very clear and sufficient.
  - brudgers 13y ago
    Kuhn popularized the phrase "paradigm shift." In his view, it occurred over generations as adherents to older scientific models died of old age - e.g. the Copernican model replaced the Ptolomeic model because Ptolomeic astronomers went extinct.
    - dekhn 13y ago
      yes, but it's much faster now (look at how quickly the RNA World Hypothesis took over after Noller, Woese, and Cech demonstrated their results. One might say we're catalyzing paradigm shifts through network effects. Then engineers would complain I was using management talk, but I can assure you, that's a succinct and accurate way to explain it.
      - cac04 13y ago
        If it's a "succinct and accurate way to explain it" then why do so many people find it jarring and confusing? If management speak really is a jargon then it is useful only when talking to other managers, not to people in general. (And, it would appear, especially not when talking to engineers.)
- jmmcd 13y ago
  "catalyze a shift in the world's thought paradigm" is the quote, so it sounds like you're the one who needs to be careful of language.
  - thenomad 13y ago
    Although isn't "thought paradigm" a tautology?
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      No (nor is it an oxymoron, which I think is more relevant); a paradigm is a defining pattern, and quite including a pattern of action. Its frequently used in a way which implicitly references a pattern of thought, but its not redundant to make that explicit.
      - thenomad 13y ago
        Hmm, interesting. I've just checked the OED's definition, and it seems to mostly relate to thought - essentially, "paradigm" as "mental model". However, the idea of an action paradigm is interesting - can you give an example of usage in that way?
- Eliezer 13y ago
  I recommend not taking an English lit class, and instead going to your local library and borrowing some well-worn books on how to write by actual authors. And not literary authors either.
  - jrockway 13y ago
    Though I doubt anyone is going to call you bad at writing if your press releases start sounding like Hemingway and Shakespeare.
bsullivan01 13y ago
what Jrockway said https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6407580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6407580 But your comments are factually wrong. None of Google's products you mention are new or really that much better (so far.) >> Google is a company that is making self-driving cars So is every major car manufacturer out there. Who's ahead of the game? I don't know because Google gets all the press and fawning from fanboys--like you. ">>providing incredibly fast internet to consumers Experimenting in a few ares with plenty of subsidies doesn't count. The much hated Verizon has done a LOT more on that regard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS ">> providing Internet to suffering area with a patently new idea (the Loon)" Not providing anything yet, just experiments and Loon is not a new idea at all. http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120347353988378955.html http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120347353988378955.ht... ">> exploring definitively new ideas for hardware (Google Glass)" Not a new idea at all. Different thinking of course but the verdict is still out. One day--the focused like a laser--Google will manufacture their toilet paper and you'll be here to wonder how we managed without toilet paper before Google invented it.
- seiji 13y ago
  There are more people who believe the google brain washing of "Google itself is singularly advancing the world of driving, ubiquitous computing, and medicine!" than realize google is just very noisy about the things it does (plus the fan-blog-fawning multiplier of hearing about the same thing in 10,000 different outlets).
- robotresearcher 13y ago
  > Who's ahead of the [self-driving car] game? I don't know because Google gets all the press and fawning from fanboys--like you. It's Google. They have the right people, the right ideas, the resources, and they started first. Source: I'm a prof in a related field with graduated PhD students at Google. The Google cars get press because they are really very good.
  - bsullivan01 13y ago
    Google didn't start first at all. Maybe they have the right people but as far as resources, other car companies have them too. That's their bread and butter, not some experiment By the way: " Mercedes missed a barn-door sized opportunity last week when it revealed technical details of next year's 2014 S-class, which showed that while this flagship model could potentially have been the world's first autonomous driving car, Mercedes has decided not to give it that capability. For now, the driver's hands have to remain on the wheel at all times. "The car would do it [autonomous driving] today," said Jochen Haab technical support manager, "we have had test cars doing that, but what happens if a child steps out into the street and the radar misses it?" http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/first-looks/new-car-tech-2014-mercedes-benz-s-class http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/first-looks/new-car-tech-2014...

by clicks 13y ago

jrockway 13y ago

He's making fun of the buzzwords, not the message itself. Frankly, if you think "catalyzing paradigms" is a good way to say something, I'd recommend taking an English literature class.

dekhn 13y ago
Err... catalyzing a paradigm change makes perfect sense to me. I think Thomas Kuhn might have used that in his book, "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions". A lit class isn't going to make any comment on a phrase like that, or management speak in general. Management speak is just a jargon.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Management speak is just a jargon. Its mostly not. Jargon is specialized use of terms used to facilitate clear communication of ideas within a specific community/domain. Management speak -- at least the form that is often mocked -- is just using flowery language to conceal the absence of substance, and is pretty much the opposite of jargon.
  - dekhn 13y ago
    I disagree. I hear your complaint from many people, but I spend enough time talking to managers to understand what they mean, and I actually think there's content there.
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      I spend a lot of time talking to managers, and most what they are saying isn't what people describe as "management speak" (which is, despite the phrase usually used to describe it, more the language of marketing and PR -- which, to be fair, managers frequently necessarily engage in and all too often are also victims of.) There is a jargon of management -- an array of terms with precise meanings in the field that are either not used outside of the field or are used outside with different meanings, and which facilitate clear communication in the domain. But that's really not what people are talking about when they are talking complaining about "management speak", which seems to be all about marketing/PR buzzwords which are used to create certain feelings while minimizing communication of clear commitments and detailed information, which are used by management either when they are acting to promote the business in marketing/PR role, or when they've been successfully snowed over by some vendor's or other industry player's marketing.
      - sAuronas 13y ago
        All the talk of jargon while a paradigm has shifted... No doubt, you are all very smart (and literate) but the point was to notice how f^@k1ng big this is.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >Err... catalyzing a paradigm change makes perfect sense to me. I think Thomas Kuhn might have used that in his book, "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions". And I think he wouldn't have touched that phrase with a barge pole. >Management speak is just a jargon. No. Jargon comes out of necessity and field-specific needs. Management speak comes out of the desire to unecessarily dress-up bullshit.
  - dekhn 13y ago
    To catalyze something means to speed it up. So catalyzing a paradigm change means to make it happen faster. I don't see the problem with this. Could you be more specific?
    - coldtea 13y ago
      >To catalyze something means to speed it up. (...) I don't see the problem with this. Could you be more specific? The problem with this is that "make it happen faster" is already clear and sufficient. People understand it -- including people who don't have an idea what "catalyst" means (for me it's a totally transparent word, as its origin and etymology come from my language. YMMV). If you want to dress it up to make it sound more impressive, then you're not communicating effectively. And if you include 3-4 other unecessary buzzwords in the same sentense you're just name-dropping words. "I saw a very puissant pismire lifting 100 times its weight in a sweven yesterday". Do you see anything wrong with this sentense? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pismire http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pismire http://www.thefreedictionary.com/puissant http://www.thefreedictionary.com/puissant http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sweven http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sweven (Except if you're a chemist, and you use the word "catalyst" as it applies to your terminology)
      - tedks 13y ago
        >The problem with this is that "make it happen faster" is already clear and sufficient. Do you only read Simple English wikipedia? It's very clear and sufficient.
- brudgers 13y ago
  Kuhn popularized the phrase "paradigm shift." In his view, it occurred over generations as adherents to older scientific models died of old age - e.g. the Copernican model replaced the Ptolomeic model because Ptolomeic astronomers went extinct.
  - dekhn 13y ago
    yes, but it's much faster now (look at how quickly the RNA World Hypothesis took over after Noller, Woese, and Cech demonstrated their results. One might say we're catalyzing paradigm shifts through network effects. Then engineers would complain I was using management talk, but I can assure you, that's a succinct and accurate way to explain it.
    - cac04 13y ago
      If it's a "succinct and accurate way to explain it" then why do so many people find it jarring and confusing? If management speak really is a jargon then it is useful only when talking to other managers, not to people in general. (And, it would appear, especially not when talking to engineers.)
jmmcd 13y ago
"catalyze a shift in the world's thought paradigm" is the quote, so it sounds like you're the one who needs to be careful of language.
- thenomad 13y ago
  Although isn't "thought paradigm" a tautology?
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    No (nor is it an oxymoron, which I think is more relevant); a paradigm is a defining pattern, and quite including a pattern of action. Its frequently used in a way which implicitly references a pattern of thought, but its not redundant to make that explicit.
    - thenomad 13y ago
      Hmm, interesting. I've just checked the OED's definition, and it seems to mostly relate to thought - essentially, "paradigm" as "mental model". However, the idea of an action paradigm is interesting - can you give an example of usage in that way?
Eliezer 13y ago
I recommend not taking an English lit class, and instead going to your local library and borrowing some well-worn books on how to write by actual authors. And not literary authors either.
- jrockway 13y ago
  Though I doubt anyone is going to call you bad at writing if your press releases start sounding like Hemingway and Shakespeare.

bsullivan01 13y ago

what Jrockway said https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6407580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6407580 But your comments are factually wrong. None of Google's products you mention are new or really that much better (so far.) >> Google is a company that is making self-driving cars So is every major car manufacturer out there. Who's ahead of the game? I don't know because Google gets all the press and fawning from fanboys--like you. ">>providing incredibly fast internet to consumers Experimenting in a few ares with plenty of subsidies doesn't count. The much hated Verizon has done a LOT more on that regard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS ">> providing Internet to suffering area with a patently new idea (the Loon)" Not providing anything yet, just experiments and Loon is not a new idea at all. http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120347353988378955.html http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120347353988378955.ht... ">> exploring definitively new ideas for hardware (Google Glass)" Not a new idea at all. Different thinking of course but the verdict is still out. One day--the focused like a laser--Google will manufacture their toilet paper and you'll be here to wonder how we managed without toilet paper before Google invented it.

seiji 13y ago
There are more people who believe the google brain washing of "Google itself is singularly advancing the world of driving, ubiquitous computing, and medicine!" than realize google is just very noisy about the things it does (plus the fan-blog-fawning multiplier of hearing about the same thing in 10,000 different outlets).
robotresearcher 13y ago
> Who's ahead of the [self-driving car] game? I don't know because Google gets all the press and fawning from fanboys--like you. It's Google. They have the right people, the right ideas, the resources, and they started first. Source: I'm a prof in a related field with graduated PhD students at Google. The Google cars get press because they are really very good.
- bsullivan01 13y ago
  Google didn't start first at all. Maybe they have the right people but as far as resources, other car companies have them too. That's their bread and butter, not some experiment By the way: " Mercedes missed a barn-door sized opportunity last week when it revealed technical details of next year's 2014 S-class, which showed that while this flagship model could potentially have been the world's first autonomous driving car, Mercedes has decided not to give it that capability. For now, the driver's hands have to remain on the wheel at all times. "The car would do it [autonomous driving] today," said Jochen Haab technical support manager, "we have had test cars doing that, but what happens if a child steps out into the street and the radar misses it?" http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/first-looks/new-car-tech-2014-mercedes-benz-s-class http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/first-looks/new-car-tech-2014...