7 ms·

No. Poor people cut out non-essentials, be more efficient, and save money. A lack of nice things now will help later. Buy cheaper clothes, stop smoking, stop

No. Poor people cut out non-essentials, be more efficient, and save money. A lack of nice things now will help later. Buy cheaper clothes, stop smoking, stop drinking, eat out less, don't have a fancy car...etc. Don't live beyond your means and consider your means what allows you to save 20%. Exactly what I'd have to do if I wanted to save more money. Stop pretending like poor people are all dizzy starving idiots that can't do a damn thing to better their condition. People tend to live up to their expectations.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> No. Poor people cut out non-essentials, be more efficient, and save money. If you have surplus income after paying for essentials, you aren't poor.
- mc32 13y ago
  Is someone who decides to live in the wilderness poor? No steady source of income, access to medical care is remote and non-trivial. But, on the other hand, they may have a small savings account. I think it's still being poor, given the insecurity. Even if it's a conscious and choice they made but could work out of.
- BrandonMarc 13y ago
  Then you'd be amazed at what the government defines as "poor" now. Using data from the Census Bureau, the Department of Energy, and many other federal agencies, see this detailed report (tons of charts, numbers, and links to sources). http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/07/what-is-poverty http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/07/what-is-pov... You may be surprised to see "poor" households usually include: * the usual money-saving appliances (fridge, stove, microwave, coffee maker, clothes washer, dishwasher) * plenty infotainment (2-3 TV's, DVD, VCR, stereo) * money-draining luxuries (cable / satellite TV, xbox subscription, smart phone) Yes, the last items are luxuries, if you're going to complain about poverty. Heck, I'm middle class and I don't have any of those three. Let's talk about food, too. From the report: Temporary food shortages have increased during the current recession but still remain atypical among poor households. During 2009, less than one poor household in five experienced even a single instance of “reduced food intake and disrupted eating patterns” due to a lack of financial resources.[26] Strikingly, only 4 percent of poor children experienced even a single instance of “reduced food intake and disrupted eating patterns” due to a lack of financial resources.[27] Regrettably, most discussions of poverty in the U.S. rely on sensationalism, exaggeration, and misinformation ... an effective discussion must be based on an accurate assessment of actual living conditions and the causes of poverty. ---------- This is all to say, with concrete data, that people we consider "poor" tend to have the essentials and then some.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > Then you'd be amazed at what the government defines as "poor" now. What the government defines as "poor" is irrelevant to the substance of the criticism being raised here. Words have different meanings in different contexts.
kjs3 13y ago
Poor people have already done those things. John Scalzi says it better than I ever could: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ You can downmod me all you want. Truth hurts.
azelfrath 13y ago
I could not agree with you more had I said those words myself. A year ago I had a great job as a sysadmin, then I got laid off. Shit happens. I got a job doing landscaping for $10 an hour til I could find something better, and when winter came I worked in a restaurant serving people in the city. What did I do? I stopped eating out and put my cooking skills to use saving money by eating in. I cut out cable, lowered my Internet speed and got Netflix. Got more conscientious about power usage. What did I learn? At that job I both cooked and took orders in a 24/7 setting in a large city. I saw wealthy executives and immigrant Somalians alike buy food. The one thing I took away from that is that poor people stay poor by making poor decisions. Pun. Intended. When you walk around buying lottery tickets and junk food, wearing bling bling, smoking a pack a day, and clubbing every night, of course you're going to hit a financial hurdle. My advice? Exercise that section of your mind we call common sense. Shop smarter. Do some math. Skip the club. Stop smoking. Put that on a 4x6.
- cdcarter 13y ago
  That's not being poor. Try earning federal minimum wage and providing for 2-3 people. You cut the crap out early. But your car that you need to get to work still breaks down. Your SNAP (don't know what they are? you've never been poor) benefits still run out too soon. And you and your kids still get sick.
  - jamesaguilar 13y ago
    That notwithstanding, what advice would you naysayers like to see on this card for poor people? Is there anything that simply knowing is going to help them? This card contains all the major points of advice a poor person can use about finance. Whether that is enough to save them is a completely different question. Raising it is not a valid criticism of this card.
    - aidenn0 13y ago
      For poor people, there's basiclayy #1 Convince all the rich people to do the last item on the card from the original article #2 Try to get your kids to do something different than you, if you're earning $20k/year with no savings, no spouse and have kids it's probably too late for you to save anyway
Jormundir 13y ago
Don't forget to tell them to let their babies die, those things are expensive. Parents too. Taking care of your aging folks can be expensive. Stop taking care of your parents. Any happiness you have now is because you're in the thick of a poor decision that is making you stay poor. Stop smiling, dumb shit makes you smile. Stop going to the doctor. Stop paying for vegetables, can food is cheaper. Stop the tendencies you developed by being raised by worthless, stupid poor people. Stop hanging out with your poor friends. Stop hanging out with your poor ass family. Stop being a fucking human being, open your poor, dumb fucking eyes and make a dollar.
- briancaw2 13y ago
  Don't let your babies die, but really try not to have them if you can't afford them. I never said people's poor decisions made them poor, I'm saying they can help get out of poverty by making good ones. And if you have kids, yes, make a dollar. You brought life into this world and you have a responsibility. You can let your kids get stuck in a cycle of poverty by feeling like a victim or you can bust your ass to try and get them out of poverty. If I had a child in poverty I wouldn't be smiling, because I'd know that I brought life into this world at a disadvantage and I'd work my ass off until I did what was right. So you can keep telling poor people that they're helpless, or you can, like I do, believe they have a great perseverance and aptitude that they need to tap into and provide a better life for their children. I'm not saying they need to do it alone; quite the opposite - we as a nation need to believe in the ability of our disadvantaged to become productive members of society and promote programs to help them get there. But we do not need to act like any nudge towards taking matters into your own hands is an implication of blame. It is not. It is a suggestion that betting your children's future on government intervention is a colossal mistake. I'll vote for legislation that enables the poor, I'll pay higher taxes and donate to 401cs and get the word out, but there is no single greater factor in the equation of your children's happiness than you yourself.
  - Jormundir 13y ago
    Now that sounds more sensible, and I agree completely that ultimately you can only help someone who wants to be helped. Your earlier comments were showing that you don't understand the poverty problem at all and you don't know how to motivate people at all. The problem is not that poor people are constantly choosing to be poor, or making no choice and allowing themselves to fall into poverty, but that they are raised in poverty. Being raised poor means all sorts of things: you are taught poor values by your parents, you likely get a terrible education, you likely only have access to be friends with fellow poor people, you probably eat poorly, and worst of all your poor parents and poor friends have reinforced your entire life that these poor decisions you're making are actually good decisions. You will never accomplish anything (or sound smart or practical at all) by slapping individuals in the face and telling them to make better decisions. They're told that these good decisions us well off people make, by their friends and by the vast majority of us well-offers, are actually making us terribly unhappy people (and in a lot of cases they're not wrong). The only way real change can happen is by addressing the cultural cycle of poverty, and by supporting, positively teaching, and motivating these people to make better decisions.
mdpopescu 13y ago
As a direct example, my parents are both poor. They are retired and their total pension is about $400 a month... which they mostly spend on smoking and coffee. Oh, and they also have four TV sets (my father has an obsession). Ok, so I can afford to supplement that income somewhat; but saying that they couldn't save is absurd.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> No. Poor people cut out non-essentials, be more efficient, and save money. If you have surplus income after paying for essentials, you aren't poor.

mc32 13y ago
Is someone who decides to live in the wilderness poor? No steady source of income, access to medical care is remote and non-trivial. But, on the other hand, they may have a small savings account. I think it's still being poor, given the insecurity. Even if it's a conscious and choice they made but could work out of.
BrandonMarc 13y ago
Then you'd be amazed at what the government defines as "poor" now. Using data from the Census Bureau, the Department of Energy, and many other federal agencies, see this detailed report (tons of charts, numbers, and links to sources). http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/07/what-is-poverty http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/07/what-is-pov... You may be surprised to see "poor" households usually include: * the usual money-saving appliances (fridge, stove, microwave, coffee maker, clothes washer, dishwasher) * plenty infotainment (2-3 TV's, DVD, VCR, stereo) * money-draining luxuries (cable / satellite TV, xbox subscription, smart phone) Yes, the last items are luxuries, if you're going to complain about poverty. Heck, I'm middle class and I don't have any of those three. Let's talk about food, too. From the report: Temporary food shortages have increased during the current recession but still remain atypical among poor households. During 2009, less than one poor household in five experienced even a single instance of “reduced food intake and disrupted eating patterns” due to a lack of financial resources.[26] Strikingly, only 4 percent of poor children experienced even a single instance of “reduced food intake and disrupted eating patterns” due to a lack of financial resources.[27] Regrettably, most discussions of poverty in the U.S. rely on sensationalism, exaggeration, and misinformation ... an effective discussion must be based on an accurate assessment of actual living conditions and the causes of poverty. ---------- This is all to say, with concrete data, that people we consider "poor" tend to have the essentials and then some.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Then you'd be amazed at what the government defines as "poor" now. What the government defines as "poor" is irrelevant to the substance of the criticism being raised here. Words have different meanings in different contexts.

kjs3 13y ago

Poor people have already done those things. John Scalzi says it better than I ever could: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ You can downmod me all you want. Truth hurts.

azelfrath 13y ago

I could not agree with you more had I said those words myself. A year ago I had a great job as a sysadmin, then I got laid off. Shit happens. I got a job doing landscaping for $10 an hour til I could find something better, and when winter came I worked in a restaurant serving people in the city. What did I do? I stopped eating out and put my cooking skills to use saving money by eating in. I cut out cable, lowered my Internet speed and got Netflix. Got more conscientious about power usage. What did I learn? At that job I both cooked and took orders in a 24/7 setting in a large city. I saw wealthy executives and immigrant Somalians alike buy food. The one thing I took away from that is that poor people stay poor by making poor decisions. Pun. Intended. When you walk around buying lottery tickets and junk food, wearing bling bling, smoking a pack a day, and clubbing every night, of course you're going to hit a financial hurdle. My advice? Exercise that section of your mind we call common sense. Shop smarter. Do some math. Skip the club. Stop smoking. Put that on a 4x6.

cdcarter 13y ago
That's not being poor. Try earning federal minimum wage and providing for 2-3 people. You cut the crap out early. But your car that you need to get to work still breaks down. Your SNAP (don't know what they are? you've never been poor) benefits still run out too soon. And you and your kids still get sick.
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  That notwithstanding, what advice would you naysayers like to see on this card for poor people? Is there anything that simply knowing is going to help them? This card contains all the major points of advice a poor person can use about finance. Whether that is enough to save them is a completely different question. Raising it is not a valid criticism of this card.
  - aidenn0 13y ago
    For poor people, there's basiclayy #1 Convince all the rich people to do the last item on the card from the original article #2 Try to get your kids to do something different than you, if you're earning $20k/year with no savings, no spouse and have kids it's probably too late for you to save anyway

Jormundir 13y ago

Don't forget to tell them to let their babies die, those things are expensive. Parents too. Taking care of your aging folks can be expensive. Stop taking care of your parents. Any happiness you have now is because you're in the thick of a poor decision that is making you stay poor. Stop smiling, dumb shit makes you smile. Stop going to the doctor. Stop paying for vegetables, can food is cheaper. Stop the tendencies you developed by being raised by worthless, stupid poor people. Stop hanging out with your poor friends. Stop hanging out with your poor ass family. Stop being a fucking human being, open your poor, dumb fucking eyes and make a dollar.

briancaw2 13y ago
Don't let your babies die, but really try not to have them if you can't afford them. I never said people's poor decisions made them poor, I'm saying they can help get out of poverty by making good ones. And if you have kids, yes, make a dollar. You brought life into this world and you have a responsibility. You can let your kids get stuck in a cycle of poverty by feeling like a victim or you can bust your ass to try and get them out of poverty. If I had a child in poverty I wouldn't be smiling, because I'd know that I brought life into this world at a disadvantage and I'd work my ass off until I did what was right. So you can keep telling poor people that they're helpless, or you can, like I do, believe they have a great perseverance and aptitude that they need to tap into and provide a better life for their children. I'm not saying they need to do it alone; quite the opposite - we as a nation need to believe in the ability of our disadvantaged to become productive members of society and promote programs to help them get there. But we do not need to act like any nudge towards taking matters into your own hands is an implication of blame. It is not. It is a suggestion that betting your children's future on government intervention is a colossal mistake. I'll vote for legislation that enables the poor, I'll pay higher taxes and donate to 401cs and get the word out, but there is no single greater factor in the equation of your children's happiness than you yourself.
- Jormundir 13y ago
  Now that sounds more sensible, and I agree completely that ultimately you can only help someone who wants to be helped. Your earlier comments were showing that you don't understand the poverty problem at all and you don't know how to motivate people at all. The problem is not that poor people are constantly choosing to be poor, or making no choice and allowing themselves to fall into poverty, but that they are raised in poverty. Being raised poor means all sorts of things: you are taught poor values by your parents, you likely get a terrible education, you likely only have access to be friends with fellow poor people, you probably eat poorly, and worst of all your poor parents and poor friends have reinforced your entire life that these poor decisions you're making are actually good decisions. You will never accomplish anything (or sound smart or practical at all) by slapping individuals in the face and telling them to make better decisions. They're told that these good decisions us well off people make, by their friends and by the vast majority of us well-offers, are actually making us terribly unhappy people (and in a lot of cases they're not wrong). The only way real change can happen is by addressing the cultural cycle of poverty, and by supporting, positively teaching, and motivating these people to make better decisions.

mdpopescu 13y ago

As a direct example, my parents are both poor. They are retired and their total pension is about $400 a month... which they mostly spend on smoking and coffee. Oh, and they also have four TV sets (my father has an obsession). Ok, so I can afford to supplement that income somewhat; but saying that they couldn't save is absurd.