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I cringe reading this. Since when it is alright to tell teachers how to do their job in bullet pointed letters? * Be an adult and talk about any issues, compl

I cringe reading this. Since when it is alright to tell teachers how to do their job in bullet pointed letters? * Be an adult and talk about any issues, complements or concerns during the class. * Talk with them in person or on the phone. * If you wish, post to your blog after the issues have been resolved. To put a global context on the situation should be supported with evidence as it pertains to life as a women in the IT industry. (See what I'm doing here with the bullet points?) Parents theses days... --edit-- As I'm reading some of the responses to my post, I have to ask, what pillow soft existence did many of you grow up with? Kids (and people) say terrible things. This isn't the sign of a bad teacher, it's an opportunity for this blogger to prepare her kids (Not just the girls) for the real full-contact brutal reality known is the the real working world. Life gets waaaay harder than this.

danso 13y ago
Two things: 1. The OP did reach out to the teacher: > I suggested that she talk to you. I offered to talk to you. I offered to come talk to the class. I offered to send one of my male friends, perhaps a well-known local programmer, to go talk to the class. Finally, my daughter decided to plow through, finish the class, and avoid all her classmates. I hate to think what less-confident girls would have done in the same situation. 2. Well, the issues were, in one way, "resolved" because the daughter passed the class (with an 'A') despite her apparent unhappiness. If you mean that the parent should wait till the issues are actually fixed before blogging...well, if the teacher doesn't respond, then I guess the parent should not blog at all? edit: My bad, the sentence in context would indicate that OP offered to go talk to the teacher, but the daughter declined. Whether or not the OP should've gone ahead and met the teacher is a whole other issue.
- bangbang 13y ago
  When this child grows up, there will be no parent to write a blog post. My point being, we all have to learn to navigate this difficult world. Stern letters from mom eventually have to stop.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    When? Is it never ok to defend your kid? Or is there an age cutoff? Because it seems to me one of the primary functions of a parent, right alongside teaching them to make it in the world.
    - hnal943 13y ago
      It needs to decrease over time. This girl is at the end of her high school experience, she should be handling social interactions with her peers on her own.
  - interpol_p 13y ago
    The mother is not paying this school to give her child a lesson in how to deal with bullying. She is paying to allow her daughter to learn programming. The school has failed because the daughter no longer wishes to put up with the bullying that comes with learning programming (at this particular school). Seems like a failing of the school that should be addressed.
- Tycho 13y ago
  The first point is actually ambiguous. I think she made the 'offer' to her daughter, who insisted that her mother should actually not interfere.
hfern 13y ago
> While I was attending SC '12 in Salt Lake City last November, my daughter emailed to tell me that the boys in her class were harassing her. "They told me to get in the kitchen and make them sandwiches," she said. Even if you think the parent is overstepping their bounds here, I would rather a parent be too concerned as oppose to not being concerned at all. Double so that he is in the tech sector while we are facing the huge gender issue. If the teacher is not doing their job stopping the harassment and thereby enforcing the stereotype, then perhaps is should be spelled out.
- bangbang 13y ago
  Kids say terrible things. This isn't the sign of a bad teacher or a worthy of a internet rant, it's an opportunity to prepare her kids (Not just the girls) for the real full-contact brutal reality known is the the real working world.
  - jessedhillon 13y ago
    Oh. Just curious, where's the line on this? Like, what things is she allowed to attempt to draw public attention to, and what things should she just counsel her daughter to learn to live with, and accept as a part of life? How should a person know what sorts of circumstances belong on which side of that line? Are these written in a book somewhere that I missed?
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - chipotle_coyote 13y ago
      I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that if you're female and you want to speak up about feeling belittled or harassed, the problem is in you, and we will gladly tell you that you need to stop bringing this subject up because we are so darn tired of hearing people like you try to bring us down. If, however, you are male and you are feeling belittled or harassed, we're pretty interested in having a serious discussion about your experience. We may not agree with you and we may tell you that we don't think you should feel that way at all, but we won't tell you not to have the discussion. If you're a woman, though? You're not allowed to have that discussion. Leave it to the menfolk. Does that clear it up for you?
ccleve 13y ago
Hello? Why would it not be ok to tell a teacher how to do their job when they're clearly failing at it? Who, exactly, is the customer here? My only complaint about the article is that it did not name the teacher or the school. Public shaming can work wonders.
- yeukhon 13y ago
  Be carefull with the rage. See my comment. Basically, we don't know the whole story. All we know was she was bullied, she got A, the teacher didn't notice, and the mother didn't talk to the teacher and here we are reading her post publicly. Well, she got A. That's all we know. Did she behave differently in her clasroom after the incident? Say, shown more aggressive behavior or come to class with a sad face? No. The article did not say that. Can we see it is possible that the daughter carried a fake smile to class and because her performance fooled the teacher? Don't jump to the table without facts from both sides.
- EdgarVerona 13y ago
  Public shaming seems extremely excessive when this teacher is just a symptom of the real problem. The real problem here is that we don't fund schools well enough to reduce the class sizes to the point where her suggestions are reasonable. Her suggests would be great in a world of 10 student classrooms - and that is a world that we CAN MAKE HAPPEN. If we were willing to loosen our wallets. As it is, in a world of 30-40 (and climbing) students per classroom and 5+ classes a day, a teacher who tried to one-on-one mentor every student they came across would be fired. They wouldn't have the time to actually teach the curriculum of the class, and would quickly find themselves out of a job. Let's not blame and shame this teacher - that's the equivalent of blaming a brick that falls off the roof of a shoddily-constructed building for killing a bystander. Instead of blaming the contractors who built the roof, let's put the brick on trial.
lotharbot 13y ago
Speaking as a teacher, I would love to get detailed feedback from a parent regarding their perception of my classroom environment. Of course, if I had a parent suggest I needed to talk to a student and/or them about a classroom issue (the post was pretty explicit about it), I'd start there instead of waiting until the end of the semester and thereby provoking them into writing a bullet-pointed letter.
jessedhillon 13y ago
One time in college, I went to a busy ice cream restaurant with some friends of mine (Fenton's in Emeryville). After entering, we saw there was just one single open table, so we went and put our jackets down on it and then got into line. After getting our ice cream we went back to the table only to find our jackets gone and some fat people sitting there, eating ice cream with their fat kids. When I asked where our jackets were, a man, presumably the father of the obese family, told us that there were "some jackets" on the table but that they had the security guard come and clear them. As we went to find our coats, he informed us that "putting your jacket on the table doesn't count" for reserving a table. In reading your post I am reminded of the certitude with which this large, stupid man asserted the correctness of an arbitrary and stupid set of rules, completely of his own making.
- Nursie 13y ago
  The system doesn't work if everyone reserves a table, it really grinds my gears when people do that in fast food joints etc. You don't need the table at that moment, people don't take long to eat there, you're bringing down the efficiency of the place by doing that. (sorry, pet hate...)
  - jessedhillon 13y ago
    What if everyone sat at the table and one person ferried the money and ice cream back and forth from the counter? Would that be better? Actual utilization of the table for eating is still zero, and the table is still engaged for the same length of time. But try and evict bodies from their seats for the sole reason that their ice cream isn't in their hands yet and you would look crazy.
    - Nursie 13y ago
      It's every bit as irritating, not that I would bother to confront anyone over it, it's not worth the effort. Still rude though. Take a table when you need one in a fast food place, not as you're joining the queue. Reserving tables before you have food makes it less likely that people with food can get a table.
javert 13y ago
> Life gets waaaay harder that this. In my experience, life gets much better after the end of high school, because in my experience, adults don't bully adults [1]. And if you are bullied, you can generally leave. [1] except the TSA, NSA, IRS, CIA, etc., but that's a different issue
- bangbang 13y ago
  If the most adversity you experience in life is high school you're either very fortunate or very unfortunate, hard to say which.
  - javert 13y ago
    I've experienced a lot of adversity. But at least as an adult you can do something about it.
- dscrd 13y ago
  >In my experience, life gets much better after the end of high school, because in my experience, adults don't bully adults [1]. And if you are bullied, you can generally leave. In my experience, life does get better but also one's ability to handle bullying gets better which leads to less bullying.
kaitai 13y ago
As a teacher, I know that it is the job of a teacher to do better. Allowing an environment that takes engaged, bright students and grinds them down is in fact a failure to do a teacher's job: classroom management is tied with content delivery in a high school teacher's job description. Yes, there are many bad teachers, but why do you excuse doing bad work, essentially arguing that wasting kids' time and potentially doing them damage is just good preparation for the real world?
- ktsmith 13y ago
  Did the student tell the teacher? Did the parent tell the teacher? From the story I get the impression that no one actually brought this issue to the teachers attention. The only context we have is that the parent offered to talk to the teacher for the daugher. The daughter declined and just put up with it for the rest of the year and avoided her classmates. Kids are really good at hiding what they're doing, especially in high school. It's easy enough to not get caught by a distracted teacher that has 20 or 30 other students to assist. If this was happening in the open and the teacher was aware of it then there's an issue, it's very possible that's not the case. Unfortunately I saw the behavior described in this article in a number of classes during my own time in high school and none of them were CS classes. There are people that will be cruel regardless of the context.
MPSimmons 13y ago
"The World" is not this static, unchanging place where everyone has to be a dick, and all you can do is learn from the school of hard knocks. Over time, "The World" CAN be improved, and the people who inhabit it can be better to each other than they were before. It'll only change if we get youth to change, though, and teachers allowing the status quo to continue unquestioned is not the way to make sure that things are better in the future.

danso 13y ago

Two things: 1. The OP did reach out to the teacher: > I suggested that she talk to you. I offered to talk to you. I offered to come talk to the class. I offered to send one of my male friends, perhaps a well-known local programmer, to go talk to the class. Finally, my daughter decided to plow through, finish the class, and avoid all her classmates. I hate to think what less-confident girls would have done in the same situation. 2. Well, the issues were, in one way, "resolved" because the daughter passed the class (with an 'A') despite her apparent unhappiness. If you mean that the parent should wait till the issues are actually fixed before blogging...well, if the teacher doesn't respond, then I guess the parent should not blog at all? edit: My bad, the sentence in context would indicate that OP offered to go talk to the teacher, but the daughter declined. Whether or not the OP should've gone ahead and met the teacher is a whole other issue.

bangbang 13y ago
When this child grows up, there will be no parent to write a blog post. My point being, we all have to learn to navigate this difficult world. Stern letters from mom eventually have to stop.
- Nursie 13y ago
  When? Is it never ok to defend your kid? Or is there an age cutoff? Because it seems to me one of the primary functions of a parent, right alongside teaching them to make it in the world.
  - hnal943 13y ago
    It needs to decrease over time. This girl is at the end of her high school experience, she should be handling social interactions with her peers on her own.
- interpol_p 13y ago
  The mother is not paying this school to give her child a lesson in how to deal with bullying. She is paying to allow her daughter to learn programming. The school has failed because the daughter no longer wishes to put up with the bullying that comes with learning programming (at this particular school). Seems like a failing of the school that should be addressed.
Tycho 13y ago
The first point is actually ambiguous. I think she made the 'offer' to her daughter, who insisted that her mother should actually not interfere.

hfern 13y ago

> While I was attending SC '12 in Salt Lake City last November, my daughter emailed to tell me that the boys in her class were harassing her. "They told me to get in the kitchen and make them sandwiches," she said. Even if you think the parent is overstepping their bounds here, I would rather a parent be too concerned as oppose to not being concerned at all. Double so that he is in the tech sector while we are facing the huge gender issue. If the teacher is not doing their job stopping the harassment and thereby enforcing the stereotype, then perhaps is should be spelled out.

bangbang 13y ago
Kids say terrible things. This isn't the sign of a bad teacher or a worthy of a internet rant, it's an opportunity to prepare her kids (Not just the girls) for the real full-contact brutal reality known is the the real working world.
- jessedhillon 13y ago
  Oh. Just curious, where's the line on this? Like, what things is she allowed to attempt to draw public attention to, and what things should she just counsel her daughter to learn to live with, and accept as a part of life? How should a person know what sorts of circumstances belong on which side of that line? Are these written in a book somewhere that I missed?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - chipotle_coyote 13y ago
    I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that if you're female and you want to speak up about feeling belittled or harassed, the problem is in you, and we will gladly tell you that you need to stop bringing this subject up because we are so darn tired of hearing people like you try to bring us down. If, however, you are male and you are feeling belittled or harassed, we're pretty interested in having a serious discussion about your experience. We may not agree with you and we may tell you that we don't think you should feel that way at all, but we won't tell you not to have the discussion. If you're a woman, though? You're not allowed to have that discussion. Leave it to the menfolk. Does that clear it up for you?

ccleve 13y ago

Hello? Why would it not be ok to tell a teacher how to do their job when they're clearly failing at it? Who, exactly, is the customer here? My only complaint about the article is that it did not name the teacher or the school. Public shaming can work wonders.

yeukhon 13y ago
Be carefull with the rage. See my comment. Basically, we don't know the whole story. All we know was she was bullied, she got A, the teacher didn't notice, and the mother didn't talk to the teacher and here we are reading her post publicly. Well, she got A. That's all we know. Did she behave differently in her clasroom after the incident? Say, shown more aggressive behavior or come to class with a sad face? No. The article did not say that. Can we see it is possible that the daughter carried a fake smile to class and because her performance fooled the teacher? Don't jump to the table without facts from both sides.
EdgarVerona 13y ago
Public shaming seems extremely excessive when this teacher is just a symptom of the real problem. The real problem here is that we don't fund schools well enough to reduce the class sizes to the point where her suggestions are reasonable. Her suggests would be great in a world of 10 student classrooms - and that is a world that we CAN MAKE HAPPEN. If we were willing to loosen our wallets. As it is, in a world of 30-40 (and climbing) students per classroom and 5+ classes a day, a teacher who tried to one-on-one mentor every student they came across would be fired. They wouldn't have the time to actually teach the curriculum of the class, and would quickly find themselves out of a job. Let's not blame and shame this teacher - that's the equivalent of blaming a brick that falls off the roof of a shoddily-constructed building for killing a bystander. Instead of blaming the contractors who built the roof, let's put the brick on trial.

lotharbot 13y ago

Speaking as a teacher, I would love to get detailed feedback from a parent regarding their perception of my classroom environment. Of course, if I had a parent suggest I needed to talk to a student and/or them about a classroom issue (the post was pretty explicit about it), I'd start there instead of waiting until the end of the semester and thereby provoking them into writing a bullet-pointed letter.

jessedhillon 13y ago

One time in college, I went to a busy ice cream restaurant with some friends of mine (Fenton's in Emeryville). After entering, we saw there was just one single open table, so we went and put our jackets down on it and then got into line. After getting our ice cream we went back to the table only to find our jackets gone and some fat people sitting there, eating ice cream with their fat kids. When I asked where our jackets were, a man, presumably the father of the obese family, told us that there were "some jackets" on the table but that they had the security guard come and clear them. As we went to find our coats, he informed us that "putting your jacket on the table doesn't count" for reserving a table. In reading your post I am reminded of the certitude with which this large, stupid man asserted the correctness of an arbitrary and stupid set of rules, completely of his own making.

Nursie 13y ago
The system doesn't work if everyone reserves a table, it really grinds my gears when people do that in fast food joints etc. You don't need the table at that moment, people don't take long to eat there, you're bringing down the efficiency of the place by doing that. (sorry, pet hate...)
- jessedhillon 13y ago
  What if everyone sat at the table and one person ferried the money and ice cream back and forth from the counter? Would that be better? Actual utilization of the table for eating is still zero, and the table is still engaged for the same length of time. But try and evict bodies from their seats for the sole reason that their ice cream isn't in their hands yet and you would look crazy.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    It's every bit as irritating, not that I would bother to confront anyone over it, it's not worth the effort. Still rude though. Take a table when you need one in a fast food place, not as you're joining the queue. Reserving tables before you have food makes it less likely that people with food can get a table.

javert 13y ago

> Life gets waaaay harder that this. In my experience, life gets much better after the end of high school, because in my experience, adults don't bully adults [1]. And if you are bullied, you can generally leave. [1] except the TSA, NSA, IRS, CIA, etc., but that's a different issue

bangbang 13y ago
If the most adversity you experience in life is high school you're either very fortunate or very unfortunate, hard to say which.
- javert 13y ago
  I've experienced a lot of adversity. But at least as an adult you can do something about it.
dscrd 13y ago
>In my experience, life gets much better after the end of high school, because in my experience, adults don't bully adults [1]. And if you are bullied, you can generally leave. In my experience, life does get better but also one's ability to handle bullying gets better which leads to less bullying.

kaitai 13y ago

As a teacher, I know that it is the job of a teacher to do better. Allowing an environment that takes engaged, bright students and grinds them down is in fact a failure to do a teacher's job: classroom management is tied with content delivery in a high school teacher's job description. Yes, there are many bad teachers, but why do you excuse doing bad work, essentially arguing that wasting kids' time and potentially doing them damage is just good preparation for the real world?

ktsmith 13y ago
Did the student tell the teacher? Did the parent tell the teacher? From the story I get the impression that no one actually brought this issue to the teachers attention. The only context we have is that the parent offered to talk to the teacher for the daugher. The daughter declined and just put up with it for the rest of the year and avoided her classmates. Kids are really good at hiding what they're doing, especially in high school. It's easy enough to not get caught by a distracted teacher that has 20 or 30 other students to assist. If this was happening in the open and the teacher was aware of it then there's an issue, it's very possible that's not the case. Unfortunately I saw the behavior described in this article in a number of classes during my own time in high school and none of them were CS classes. There are people that will be cruel regardless of the context.

MPSimmons 13y ago

"The World" is not this static, unchanging place where everyone has to be a dick, and all you can do is learn from the school of hard knocks. Over time, "The World" CAN be improved, and the people who inhabit it can be better to each other than they were before. It'll only change if we get youth to change, though, and teachers allowing the status quo to continue unquestioned is not the way to make sure that things are better in the future.