6 ms·

Smart white guy gets locked up, manages to make something of himself once his hormones cool off over the course of a few years. This is not rare. Nor is it some

by schoper 13y ago

Smart white guy gets locked up, manages to make something of himself once his hormones cool off over the course of a few years. This is not rare. Nor is it something you can apply to the general prison population. I.e., think of what the racial makeup of prison would look like 5 years after you started giving smarter people lesser sentences due to their lower rates of recidivism (and vice-versa). The average prison inmate has an IQ of 85. What can you do with that? That is McDonalds or a government-job level human potential. Further, large swaths of criminals come from parts of our society that don't avail themselves of a traditional means of attaining social restraint: marriage. While everyone here on HN has been solving such important world problems as gay marriage, America's underclass has more or less stopped marrying. Bizarrely, the libertine paradise has not ensued.

JamisonM 13y ago
> That is .. government-job level human potential Plenty of smart talented people work in government, insulting everyone who works in the civil service like that is not only offensive, it is stupid.
- schoper 13y ago
  JamisonM, please travel to your local DMV, and while you spend most of your day waiting in the line, repeat to yourself: "My government is behemoth, and therefore large enough to both hire intelligent people for important roles, and also provide sinecures for talentless individuals from groups with political clout for non-vital roles."
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    And you believe the private sector is any different? If you do, then you haven't worked in any big and rusty corporation where the only reason Joe in Accounting has been there for the past 30 years is because he knows which buttons to click on the legacy system to make the printer spit out the invoices.
  - goostavos 13y ago
    I don't know why people still harp on the DMV. Of the two in my area, I've never been in one longer than 20 minutes. They've adopted a worker pool model. You walk in and a greeter assigns you to an appropriate queue based on the type of service you need, and then 3-4 workers consume each queue type. It's stunningly efficient to say the least.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      I think the complaints usually start just about after the queues end.
    - schoper 13y ago
      I use the DMV in Redwood City, CA, and efficiency is not my experience there. They have the worker pool model as well. The last time I was there, I was unfortunate to be in the pool with the worker who could barely type. He processed 2-3 customers in an hour, while the Asian gentleman who replaced him at lunch processed 5 times as many. The first gentleman, I assume, is fit for his current position or McDonalds. I have used stunningly efficient DMVs. They do exist. But the existence of DMVs that do not scrape the bottom of the barrel for hiring, and are more efficient because of it, is proof of my point, if you take a moment to think about it.
      - jessedhillon 13y ago
        What do you have to say about the customer who has the option to schedule an appointment online, disregards that option, and then complains about being subjected to a wait? Severely entitled and unduly convinced of self-superiority come to mind.
        schoper 13y ago
        That is certainly a possibility. Unless that customer comes from a state with privately run DMVs, and is used to a 5 minute wait without scheduling. Further, it may be that that customer has been greatly impressed by the efficiency and wealth of California's private industry compared to his old state, and was not entirely prepared for the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of California's government. Jessed, I can tell that you love your government. I'm going to suggest something that you can listen to or not, as you choose: Part of loving your government means examining critiques and saying "how can this be improved?" rather than wearing your heart on your sleeve about it.
  - fleecer 13y ago
    You seem to have an extremely limited view of government jobs. The government does need rubbish collectors, DMV personnel, and cleaners, all the way up to engineers, accountants and lawyers. Not to mention policemen, teachers, the defense force. BTW the DMV is smart enough to realise voters don't care and can save money by having extremely long DMV lines. People working at a DMV can't change anything, and probably care even less.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- justin_vanw 13y ago
  There are plenty of smart people in government, but working for the government is soul destroying. There are great exceptions, like NASA and other research positions, but largely I think this quote from the Caine Mutiny sums up all government service: "The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by idiots. If you're not an idiot, but find yourself in the Navy, you can only operate well by pretending to be one."
  - throwit1979 13y ago
    I suspect you may have cause and effect reversed. Government employment is not soul-destroying; rather, government self-selects applicants from the pool of people who enjoy legal theft and extortion and telling others how to live their lives. It's difficult to destroy a soul that doesn't exist.
    - justin_vanw 13y ago
      I think your analysis is pretty cynical, but not cynical enough. Government employees, as a class, are not interested in doing anything but avoiding work. They certainly don't have any political philosophy driving their actions.
      - JamisonM 13y ago
        I wish someone had told me that back when I worked in the public sector, all my colleagues too! We thought we were all trying to execute public services well. Is the work avoidance conscious or unconscious? If it was unconscious have I lost it now that I work for myself or am I secretly undermining my own business? Please, tell me all about myself.
        jmaygarden 13y ago
        Why did you leave public service?
        13y ago
imownbey 13y ago
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/degrassi/images/9/90/Thats-racist.gif http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/degrassi/images/9/90/Thats...
- patrickmclaren 13y ago
  This is not reddit, grow up.
  - arrrg 13y ago
    That gif is quite childish – but also entirely correct. schoper is awesome at spouting cleverly disguised standard racist talking points. Nothing interesting to see there.
  - SnydenBitchy 13y ago
    Considering all the upvotes OP has earned for his nice little pile of racist poop, actually, it’s starting to smell awfully reddity in here.
    - bitcrusher 13y ago
      I've got to be missing something... I don't see where the racism is? Because he said 'white'? He also said 'gay', so is he a homophobe too? In all seriousness, point out the racism, please?
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - bradleysmith 13y ago
        >think of what the racial makeup of prison would look like 5 years after you started giving smarter people lesser sentences due to their lower rates of recidivism (and vice-versa) The above statement implies that if you let smart people out prison, the racial makeup of prisons would change. This indicates a position of assigning a pretty high correlation to intelligence and race; ie, a prejudice based on ethnicity. Seems pretty clearly racist to me.
mason55 13y ago
> The average prison inmate has an IQ of 85. What can you do with that? A lot of research is now pointing to lead being the cause of a decent amount of crime. Children who grow up exposed to lead have much lower impulse control which ends up being at the root of a lot of crime. See here[1] for a story on how the murder rate in Jamaica has dropped as a generation grows up without lead paint. [1] http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/08/18/jamaica_lead_and_crime.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/08/18/jamaica_lead_...
bjhoops1 13y ago
I'm amazed you haven't deleted this post considering it must have been down-voted into oblivion. Or so I hope. > government-job level human potential I'm so fucking sick of hearing (presumably conservative) people badmouth and dismiss all government employees. Are you contemptuous of the law enforcement officers who protect? The firefighters who would risk their lives to save your ass should your home catch fire? The over-worked, underpaid, disrespected teachers like my wife who slave away educating your [God I hope you don't have any] children? The National Guard and FEMA workers who would pick you up off your roof in the event of a flood? The DOT employees who construct the highways you drive on? The FDA workers who make sure that everything you put in your mouth is safe and poison-free? But no, those whole groups of people are to be held in contempt. They're all incompetent DMV workers unfit for jobs in the private sector. I'm sorry that I'm kind of losing my shit on here right now. Maybe you don't deserve that, IDK. I've kind of been rehearsing this diatribe since a few weeks ago when my uncles went off on this tangent at a family gathering, even declaring "the only thing a government employee cares about is their paycheck." I said nothing at the time and regretted it later as the arrogance, scorn and fucking vacuity of that comment wormed its way further and further under my skin. The patently obvious thing to say at that moment would have been something along the lines of "Oh, and are private sector employees not motivated by pay?" What a moronic assertion, that public employees, who are frequently overpaid and certainly not overpaid compared to their private sector counterparts, are somehow more motivated by financial gain than private sector employees. I suppose the firefight working for < $30k/year is just greedy. Same for my wife, who with her Master's in Education pulls in less than a Junior developer at Innitech. Obviously the only reason they do the work they do is for the pay. Whereas the VP of Sales at GE does what he does out of altruism and selflessness. Ridiculous. Are there incompetent, unmotivated government employees? Certainly. Are they more prevalent than disengaged employees in huge private corporations? I'm not so sure. All I know is, with all the shitting on that gets done en masse on government employees, someone needs to defend them.
- schoper 13y ago
  Oh, but I tell all my friends and family: "Get a government job!"
- windsurfer 13y ago
lambersley 13y ago
> That is .. government-job level human potential I'm a Gov employee and I'm not certain how to take this comment. Is my IQ no higher than 85? There certainly are plenty of Gov employees with an IQ of 85 but there are also many jobs in Gov that only require that.
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
I had to read this a few times to realize that you actually just said "we should give white people lower prison sentences for the same crimes because they're smarter and less likely to reoffend, unlike black people who are stupid and commit crimes because they're too stupid to get good jobs, and because they're really horny and don't get married like good Christians should. Also, gay marriage sucks." So, um...that was a hell of a stealthy dog-whistle there. Congratulations, I guess.
- schoper 13y ago
  Please delete your above comment. It's derogatory and wrong. In fact, I believe the following: There are a great many intelligent black people. Christians in America's underclass are just as likely to cohabit without marriage as non-Christians. If gay people, as a class, are really excited about taking up the burdens of marriage, I have no objection. They can't change their sexual preference, after all.
  - SnydenBitchy 13y ago
    So your parent comment is derogatory and wrong, but your comments about unwed parents, government employees, and “the racial makeup of prison… after you started giving smarter people lesser sentences” aren’t? Did I miss something?
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    "In fact, I believe the following..." Oh, must be a Tuesday.
bradleysmith 13y ago
Alright, I'll bite. >The average prison inmate has an IQ of 85. where'd you find that one? Assuming you've got a solid cross-section of tests to average, what kind of motivation do you think those prisoners get to score highly on THAT test? Maybe they were their school tests... What kind of motivation do you think those students had to score highly on those tests? >What can you do with that? That is McDonalds or a government-job level human potential. Ever seen that Undercover Boss show? The CEO of Waste Management was fired for being inept as a menial trash collector and laborer. I've seen electrical engineering students (good ones!) get fired as custodians, for much of the same. I met an ex-CPA with a rocketing hobby working at a DMV in Arizona over a cigarette outside. He was QUITE good at his job, and intelligent and thoughtful to boot. There are many many others like him. You really shouldn't group people into big lumpy categories, and you really shouldn't look down on people or positions. It's rude for one, but it will also severely detriment your understanding of people. I could give a damn either way, but you'll be worse off for it. >Further, large swaths of criminals come from parts of our society that don't avail themselves of a traditional means of attaining social restraint: marriage. While everyone here on HN has been solving such important world problems as gay marriage, America's underclass has more or less stopped marrying. Bizarrely, the libertine paradise has not ensued. Wait... What? did you just draw a correlation between an abandonment of the institution of marriage, and criminality? Let me put this in terms you may understand: "In God we trust; all others must bring data" I have the bizarre feeling I'm feeding a troll.
moocowduckquack 13y ago
Bizarrely, the libertine paradise has not ensued. It has been going on for ages actually. We just didn't want to spoil it by letting you know where it is.

by schoper 13y ago

JamisonM 13y ago

> That is .. government-job level human potential Plenty of smart talented people work in government, insulting everyone who works in the civil service like that is not only offensive, it is stupid.

schoper 13y ago
JamisonM, please travel to your local DMV, and while you spend most of your day waiting in the line, repeat to yourself: "My government is behemoth, and therefore large enough to both hire intelligent people for important roles, and also provide sinecures for talentless individuals from groups with political clout for non-vital roles."
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  And you believe the private sector is any different? If you do, then you haven't worked in any big and rusty corporation where the only reason Joe in Accounting has been there for the past 30 years is because he knows which buttons to click on the legacy system to make the printer spit out the invoices.
- goostavos 13y ago
  I don't know why people still harp on the DMV. Of the two in my area, I've never been in one longer than 20 minutes. They've adopted a worker pool model. You walk in and a greeter assigns you to an appropriate queue based on the type of service you need, and then 3-4 workers consume each queue type. It's stunningly efficient to say the least.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    I think the complaints usually start just about after the queues end.
  - schoper 13y ago
    I use the DMV in Redwood City, CA, and efficiency is not my experience there. They have the worker pool model as well. The last time I was there, I was unfortunate to be in the pool with the worker who could barely type. He processed 2-3 customers in an hour, while the Asian gentleman who replaced him at lunch processed 5 times as many. The first gentleman, I assume, is fit for his current position or McDonalds. I have used stunningly efficient DMVs. They do exist. But the existence of DMVs that do not scrape the bottom of the barrel for hiring, and are more efficient because of it, is proof of my point, if you take a moment to think about it.
    - jessedhillon 13y ago
      What do you have to say about the customer who has the option to schedule an appointment online, disregards that option, and then complains about being subjected to a wait? Severely entitled and unduly convinced of self-superiority come to mind.
      - schoper 13y ago
        That is certainly a possibility. Unless that customer comes from a state with privately run DMVs, and is used to a 5 minute wait without scheduling. Further, it may be that that customer has been greatly impressed by the efficiency and wealth of California's private industry compared to his old state, and was not entirely prepared for the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of California's government. Jessed, I can tell that you love your government. I'm going to suggest something that you can listen to or not, as you choose: Part of loving your government means examining critiques and saying "how can this be improved?" rather than wearing your heart on your sleeve about it.
- fleecer 13y ago
  You seem to have an extremely limited view of government jobs. The government does need rubbish collectors, DMV personnel, and cleaners, all the way up to engineers, accountants and lawyers. Not to mention policemen, teachers, the defense force. BTW the DMV is smart enough to realise voters don't care and can save money by having extremely long DMV lines. People working at a DMV can't change anything, and probably care even less.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
justin_vanw 13y ago
There are plenty of smart people in government, but working for the government is soul destroying. There are great exceptions, like NASA and other research positions, but largely I think this quote from the Caine Mutiny sums up all government service: "The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by idiots. If you're not an idiot, but find yourself in the Navy, you can only operate well by pretending to be one."
- throwit1979 13y ago
  I suspect you may have cause and effect reversed. Government employment is not soul-destroying; rather, government self-selects applicants from the pool of people who enjoy legal theft and extortion and telling others how to live their lives. It's difficult to destroy a soul that doesn't exist.
  - justin_vanw 13y ago
    I think your analysis is pretty cynical, but not cynical enough. Government employees, as a class, are not interested in doing anything but avoiding work. They certainly don't have any political philosophy driving their actions.
    - JamisonM 13y ago
      I wish someone had told me that back when I worked in the public sector, all my colleagues too! We thought we were all trying to execute public services well. Is the work avoidance conscious or unconscious? If it was unconscious have I lost it now that I work for myself or am I secretly undermining my own business? Please, tell me all about myself.
      - jmaygarden 13y ago
        Why did you leave public service?
        13y ago

imownbey 13y ago

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/degrassi/images/9/90/Thats-racist.gif http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/degrassi/images/9/90/Thats...

patrickmclaren 13y ago
This is not reddit, grow up.
- arrrg 13y ago
  That gif is quite childish – but also entirely correct. schoper is awesome at spouting cleverly disguised standard racist talking points. Nothing interesting to see there.
- SnydenBitchy 13y ago
  Considering all the upvotes OP has earned for his nice little pile of racist poop, actually, it’s starting to smell awfully reddity in here.
  - bitcrusher 13y ago
    I've got to be missing something... I don't see where the racism is? Because he said 'white'? He also said 'gay', so is he a homophobe too? In all seriousness, point out the racism, please?
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - bradleysmith 13y ago
      >think of what the racial makeup of prison would look like 5 years after you started giving smarter people lesser sentences due to their lower rates of recidivism (and vice-versa) The above statement implies that if you let smart people out prison, the racial makeup of prisons would change. This indicates a position of assigning a pretty high correlation to intelligence and race; ie, a prejudice based on ethnicity. Seems pretty clearly racist to me.

mason55 13y ago

> The average prison inmate has an IQ of 85. What can you do with that? A lot of research is now pointing to lead being the cause of a decent amount of crime. Children who grow up exposed to lead have much lower impulse control which ends up being at the root of a lot of crime. See here[1] for a story on how the murder rate in Jamaica has dropped as a generation grows up without lead paint. [1] http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/08/18/jamaica_lead_and_crime.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/08/18/jamaica_lead_...

bjhoops1 13y ago

I'm amazed you haven't deleted this post considering it must have been down-voted into oblivion. Or so I hope. > government-job level human potential I'm so fucking sick of hearing (presumably conservative) people badmouth and dismiss all government employees. Are you contemptuous of the law enforcement officers who protect? The firefighters who would risk their lives to save your ass should your home catch fire? The over-worked, underpaid, disrespected teachers like my wife who slave away educating your [God I hope you don't have any] children? The National Guard and FEMA workers who would pick you up off your roof in the event of a flood? The DOT employees who construct the highways you drive on? The FDA workers who make sure that everything you put in your mouth is safe and poison-free? But no, those whole groups of people are to be held in contempt. They're all incompetent DMV workers unfit for jobs in the private sector. I'm sorry that I'm kind of losing my shit on here right now. Maybe you don't deserve that, IDK. I've kind of been rehearsing this diatribe since a few weeks ago when my uncles went off on this tangent at a family gathering, even declaring "the only thing a government employee cares about is their paycheck." I said nothing at the time and regretted it later as the arrogance, scorn and fucking vacuity of that comment wormed its way further and further under my skin. The patently obvious thing to say at that moment would have been something along the lines of "Oh, and are private sector employees not motivated by pay?" What a moronic assertion, that public employees, who are frequently overpaid and certainly not overpaid compared to their private sector counterparts, are somehow more motivated by financial gain than private sector employees. I suppose the firefight working for < $30k/year is just greedy. Same for my wife, who with her Master's in Education pulls in less than a Junior developer at Innitech. Obviously the only reason they do the work they do is for the pay. Whereas the VP of Sales at GE does what he does out of altruism and selflessness. Ridiculous. Are there incompetent, unmotivated government employees? Certainly. Are they more prevalent than disengaged employees in huge private corporations? I'm not so sure. All I know is, with all the shitting on that gets done en masse on government employees, someone needs to defend them.

schoper 13y ago
Oh, but I tell all my friends and family: "Get a government job!"
windsurfer 13y ago

lambersley 13y ago

> That is .. government-job level human potential I'm a Gov employee and I'm not certain how to take this comment. Is my IQ no higher than 85? There certainly are plenty of Gov employees with an IQ of 85 but there are also many jobs in Gov that only require that.

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

I had to read this a few times to realize that you actually just said "we should give white people lower prison sentences for the same crimes because they're smarter and less likely to reoffend, unlike black people who are stupid and commit crimes because they're too stupid to get good jobs, and because they're really horny and don't get married like good Christians should. Also, gay marriage sucks." So, um...that was a hell of a stealthy dog-whistle there. Congratulations, I guess.

schoper 13y ago
Please delete your above comment. It's derogatory and wrong. In fact, I believe the following: There are a great many intelligent black people. Christians in America's underclass are just as likely to cohabit without marriage as non-Christians. If gay people, as a class, are really excited about taking up the burdens of marriage, I have no objection. They can't change their sexual preference, after all.
- SnydenBitchy 13y ago
  So your parent comment is derogatory and wrong, but your comments about unwed parents, government employees, and “the racial makeup of prison… after you started giving smarter people lesser sentences” aren’t? Did I miss something?
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  "In fact, I believe the following..." Oh, must be a Tuesday.

bradleysmith 13y ago

Alright, I'll bite. >The average prison inmate has an IQ of 85. where'd you find that one? Assuming you've got a solid cross-section of tests to average, what kind of motivation do you think those prisoners get to score highly on THAT test? Maybe they were their school tests... What kind of motivation do you think those students had to score highly on those tests? >What can you do with that? That is McDonalds or a government-job level human potential. Ever seen that Undercover Boss show? The CEO of Waste Management was fired for being inept as a menial trash collector and laborer. I've seen electrical engineering students (good ones!) get fired as custodians, for much of the same. I met an ex-CPA with a rocketing hobby working at a DMV in Arizona over a cigarette outside. He was QUITE good at his job, and intelligent and thoughtful to boot. There are many many others like him. You really shouldn't group people into big lumpy categories, and you really shouldn't look down on people or positions. It's rude for one, but it will also severely detriment your understanding of people. I could give a damn either way, but you'll be worse off for it. >Further, large swaths of criminals come from parts of our society that don't avail themselves of a traditional means of attaining social restraint: marriage. While everyone here on HN has been solving such important world problems as gay marriage, America's underclass has more or less stopped marrying. Bizarrely, the libertine paradise has not ensued. Wait... What? did you just draw a correlation between an abandonment of the institution of marriage, and criminality? Let me put this in terms you may understand: "In God we trust; all others must bring data" I have the bizarre feeling I'm feeding a troll.

moocowduckquack 13y ago

Bizarrely, the libertine paradise has not ensued. It has been going on for ages actually. We just didn't want to spoil it by letting you know where it is.