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It's all an insane mess. I do feel for US expats that have to go through this, when no other expats have to (the US and Eritrea are the only countries that prac

It's all an insane mess. I do feel for US expats that have to go through this, when no other expats have to (the US and Eritrea are the only countries that practice citizenship based taxation [1]), but I'll bring to this thread another group of people that I haven't seen mentioned so far in this thread. Again, I'm not trying to detract from US expats. Your problems are real enough, and you are unfairly treated, but here's a rant about another group of people: Some of us are US citizens born abroad. We are the children of one or two US parents, born outside the US. We have lived our entire lives as citizens of another country, and our ties to the US may be as slim as having been there on vacation a couple of times. We are still subject to all of this. And while it is true that most (all?) won't be double-taxed, the reporting requirements are so complex and so strict - and made all the more complicated by incompatibilities of the tax codes of our native countries and that of the US - that it's almost impossible not to make a mistake. And mistakes are punished severely - at least in theory. Even trying to evaluate whether university scholarships in my country is taxable by the US (an obscene idea on the face of it) seems to take a lawyer or accountant. Where does it end? What about child benefits? Pensions? Yes, we could renounce our US citizenships when we turned 18. In my case, however, I was not told I was a US citizen. It's now more than a decade on, and I've never filed with the IRS because my US parent did not tell me I was a citizen until recently. What on Earth do I do? So far, I've frozen in place and not dared do anything. I am not a US person in any common sense of the word, but I feel entirely trapped by that foreign country. The benefits of a US citizenship that have come up in this thread have an entirely opposite sign for me: I'm a researcher, and would love to spend significant time at US institutions, but now I can't - I can't stay beyond a tourist visa as a foreigner because as far as the US is concerned I'm not a foreigner. And I can't travel on a US passport because I don't know what will happen to me if I get one and do. And I can't fix things with the IRS (which I'd love to do), because I have no idea how many laws I've accidentally and unknowingly broken. I'm sorry that I have, and I wish I hadn't, but how could I possibly have known? You might say that my parent should have told me - and I agree - but that didn't happen. While ignorance of the law is no excuse normally, I certainly am not going to do anything that places me in danger (financially or otherwise) from a foreign nation - so here I am, frozen in limbo. As for any social service the US might provide, I can tell you that every one of these is provided better and more generously by my liberal European homeland. I don't want anything from the US - I only want to either be let go and leave the club, or be treated fairly. Either one is fine by me, but the current situation is not. Incidentally, any pointers from HN would be much appreciated. I know my status quo of "do nothing, sit still" won't be good in the long run, but I also have no damn idea on how to approach the matter. Let me summarize again: I've never earned a dollar in the US. I've never received a dollar from any US entity, save the odd birthday present from relatives as a kid. I've never been to the US for more than a couple of weeks at a time - and only as a tourist. I've never voted in the US. I've never brought money into or out of the US - except ordinary tourist amounts. I pay (comparatively) high taxes where I live - in my country, my home, which is not the US. I never knew I was a US citizen. Now all of these benefits that people bring up apply to me with a negative sign. I'd gladly give up my US citizenship - but you can't unless you've proven that you're good with the IRS going back 5 years, and that you're not renouncing for tax reasons. As for that latter part - some might say I am... I am, afterall, trying to avoid being haunted by a foreign nation's tax collecting agency for the rest of my life. Is that renouncing for tax reasons? God knows... (Sorry for the rant - this has just constanly occupied 10% of my head for a while, and it's not like there's a lot of people nearby in the same situation to talk to... any pointers from you guys would be great). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation#Citizenship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation#Citizen...

Luc 13y ago
My European tax office has procedures to regularize messy situations (e.g. a child inheriting a foreign bank account containing undeclared money earned by the parents). A 15 minute chat with a lawyer specialized in this would help you out a lot I think.
- a035bb942 13y ago
  Good idea! I've always found my country's tax office to be very helpful when I've made mistakes or had questions with my taxes in the past. They might have some tips for the whole US situation.
nsp 13y ago
Email me (in profile), I know a few propel that have been in similar situations
- a035bb942 13y ago
  I will do this when I get home from work. Thank you.
adamcik 13y ago
Last year in September a tax delinquent program for expats was enacted, what this means is basically that you need to file the last three years of taxes, and the last six years of FBAR (for the years you had more than 10K USD in your accounts). This is instead of the last five years of taxes that you would normally be required to do. You would only need to actually pay taxes if you are over ~90K USD a year and don't have enough foreign tax credits to cover it. To be able to actually file the taxes you need a SSN. You can get this by going to a consulate or embassy, bringing the proper original documentation (get in touch with them for the details). They will make certified copies, mail those up the chain until it gets to the state department and 3-6 months later you will have your SSN. For actually doing the taxes one option is to pay someone to do it. You still end up doing a lot of prep-work yourself, so you are basically paying to some peace at mind that they've signed of on things being correct. If you go for a renunciation, the date you renounce is the date your tax obligation ends, this has recently changed and not all tax accounts, even the ones that specialize in expats seem to know this. This means you might end up with renouncing before you have a SSN, and thus your taxes in order, so look into the laws and/or ask an expert before deciding how to handle this. Last bit is figuring out exit taxes, there the tax accountants seem to be useless as it makes no sense for them to specialize in one time customers. But it seems they will happily charge you for looking over and sanity checking the form once you fill it out. You can also forget calling the IRS and getting any help about renunciations, they consider such matters "advanced" and will only tell you to get a lawyer and/or tax accountant. http://web.archive.org/web/20130626160026/http://www.renunciationguide.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20130626160026/http://www.renunci... used to have a very comprehensive coverage of the renunciation process, but seems to have disappeared :( As for how to proceed, and what makes sense to do is a highly personal matter and depends on so many things. The act of renunciation is irrevocable, and should not be taken lightly. I wish you the best of luck as having this type of stuff looming over you is really draining.

Luc 13y ago

My European tax office has procedures to regularize messy situations (e.g. a child inheriting a foreign bank account containing undeclared money earned by the parents). A 15 minute chat with a lawyer specialized in this would help you out a lot I think.

a035bb942 13y ago
Good idea! I've always found my country's tax office to be very helpful when I've made mistakes or had questions with my taxes in the past. They might have some tips for the whole US situation.

nsp 13y ago

Email me (in profile), I know a few propel that have been in similar situations

a035bb942 13y ago
I will do this when I get home from work. Thank you.

adamcik 13y ago

Last year in September a tax delinquent program for expats was enacted, what this means is basically that you need to file the last three years of taxes, and the last six years of FBAR (for the years you had more than 10K USD in your accounts). This is instead of the last five years of taxes that you would normally be required to do. You would only need to actually pay taxes if you are over ~90K USD a year and don't have enough foreign tax credits to cover it. To be able to actually file the taxes you need a SSN. You can get this by going to a consulate or embassy, bringing the proper original documentation (get in touch with them for the details). They will make certified copies, mail those up the chain until it gets to the state department and 3-6 months later you will have your SSN. For actually doing the taxes one option is to pay someone to do it. You still end up doing a lot of prep-work yourself, so you are basically paying to some peace at mind that they've signed of on things being correct. If you go for a renunciation, the date you renounce is the date your tax obligation ends, this has recently changed and not all tax accounts, even the ones that specialize in expats seem to know this. This means you might end up with renouncing before you have a SSN, and thus your taxes in order, so look into the laws and/or ask an expert before deciding how to handle this. Last bit is figuring out exit taxes, there the tax accountants seem to be useless as it makes no sense for them to specialize in one time customers. But it seems they will happily charge you for looking over and sanity checking the form once you fill it out. You can also forget calling the IRS and getting any help about renunciations, they consider such matters "advanced" and will only tell you to get a lawyer and/or tax accountant. http://web.archive.org/web/20130626160026/http://www.renunciationguide.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20130626160026/http://www.renunci... used to have a very comprehensive coverage of the renunciation process, but seems to have disappeared :( As for how to proceed, and what makes sense to do is a highly personal matter and depends on so many things. The act of renunciation is irrevocable, and should not be taken lightly. I wish you the best of luck as having this type of stuff looming over you is really draining.