5 ms·

I got the feeling my server was offended when I didn't order wine or a dessert last friday when I went out to a nice restaurant. F- tipping, it makes both sides

by pixie_ 13y ago

I got the feeling my server was offended when I didn't order wine or a dessert last friday when I went out to a nice restaurant. F- tipping, it makes both sides of the table into jerks.

CapitalistCartr 13y ago
I get that often; I'm a vegetarian, which results in me often ordering a cheaper meal, and I usually drink water, unless the tea is decent. I order their tea if it isn't nasty. So the impression for the staff is that I'm cheap, which is far from the truth; I'm an exceptionally generous tipper. I know the look on the face when they hear my order and decide I'm not worth their time. It pits my interests against theirs, instead of aligning them as tipping is supposed to do. Tipping makes me their employer willy-nilly. I didn't pick them, I can't fire them (at least not without considerable difficulty). But I have to pay them, although we have no agreement as to details. Its a crazy system. P. S. I am the "adult white male" as in the article.
joonix 13y ago
I don't drink and nor large groups of friends I have, we're all used to this. As soon as a table demonstrates it's not ordering alcohol, waiters basically disappear for the night or give us attitude. Tipping is stressful for everyone. It's nonsense and broken. Non-tipping systems work just fine everywhere else.
- larrys 13y ago
  Why is it stressful for the customer? For what reason?
  - michaelt 13y ago
    If "waiters basically disappear for the night or give us attitude" because they think you aren't spending enough?
  - dkersten 13y ago
    Did you read the comment you replied to? That's why its stressful for the customer.
  - bdavisx 13y ago
    Because sitting with an empty glass of water (or whatever) waiting to get it refilled before you continue eating is stressful - for me at least, I drink a lot when I'm eating. Trying to get the attention of a waitperson who doesn't want to wait on you is stressful.
  - joonix 13y ago
    Because I get attitude from a person who is supposed to be serving me, as well as inattentive service. I don't think I need to explain why bad service is bad. Also, the actual act of tipping is uncomfortable. I have to write an amount that I feel adequately compensates the person for their effort and time. I really have no idea what that number should be. 15-20% is completely arbitrary. If I feel the service was bad, I now have to do a passive-aggressive low tip. And you know they are just going to think you tipped low because you're cheap, not because their service was bad.
    - larrys 13y ago
      Do you feel the same way on all tipping? (For example tipping the bellhop or tipping the maid at a hotel?) I'm not defending tipping I'm just curious how you feel about it in other cases.
  - YcombRegBroken 13y ago
    Any time you are the subject of prejudice, it is a source of stress. While it isn't at the level of a classic civil rights struggle, it still exists. What prejudice? As the article says, if you look like the profile of a "bad tipper", you get shitty service. If you don't order alcohol/desserts/appetizers, shitty service. Split a large portion to not waste food? Shitty service. It's a shitty system.
  - clicks 13y ago
    It's stressful because it often results in a lose-lose situation: if I tip poorly, this is not action that will learn them that what they did was somehow bad service, it'll just turn the situation into an antagonistic orientation. So, the next time I come in, I'm not really sure if he's gonna spit in my food. So in the end I always end up reluctantly tipping the same amount, no matter how the service was. Also, as a brown male, reading the article made it pretty clear why I receive markedly poorer service when I'm with my family (also brown), vs. when I'm eating out with my white friends. Being reminded of racism in this way is, well... pretty stressful. This essay was also posted on Reddit, and I saw similar responses from African American folks there: even though a lot of them tip pretty generously, they can sense that servers don't look forward to being at their table providing service, as if they're anticipating a bad tip.
    - larrys 13y ago
      Interestingly, and not trying to compare to what you experience but I'm not very tall and when I have to get a drink at a bar it's truly a challenge. And I always think "If I was one of those tall guys I would get better service". (I've not done anything to verify this other than it seems that way). Likewise sometimes I am in my car and someone looks over at me. I think "wow if I was a girl I would think they are looking at me because of that!" (Because I tend to check out girls!) My point is although there is no question you are subject to the actions you (and others describe) but it also could be the case that it happens for other reasons that have nothing to do with skin color. Make sense? Lastly, while I am white, I am of a religion that has a percentage of the population that is biased against us. But for some reason I haven't really experienced that bad treatment that I can link to my religion. I think this is because my last name doesn't scream the religion as some others do. One more thing. I'm married to a physician and I dated a physician. And when we are together people always assume I am the doctor or also a doctor. And they always seem to defer to me rather than my wife (or in the past girlfriend). My wife also has been treated by nurses without respect something they don't do to the male doctors.
      - clicks 13y ago
        > My point is although there is no question you are subject to the actions you (and others describe) but it also could be the case that it happens for other reasons that have nothing to do with skin color. I think that is a bit of a stretch. There is concrete evidence that explains this happens a lot, and it's clear that racism [1] and sexism [2] are a key part of it. And -- not as scientific here -- but there's intuition I have gathered that's backed up with 10 years of extensive dining out in various arrangements and settings, and anecdotes from my server friends about the politics in restaurants. [1] http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/Business_Considerations_Tipping_final.pdf http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/Business_Considerations_T... [2] http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/ServerAppearance1-3-08.pdf http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/ServerAppearance1-3-08.pd...

by pixie_ 13y ago

I got the feeling my server was offended when I didn't order wine or a dessert last friday when I went out to a nice restaurant. F- tipping, it makes both sides of the table into jerks.

CapitalistCartr 13y ago

I get that often; I'm a vegetarian, which results in me often ordering a cheaper meal, and I usually drink water, unless the tea is decent. I order their tea if it isn't nasty. So the impression for the staff is that I'm cheap, which is far from the truth; I'm an exceptionally generous tipper. I know the look on the face when they hear my order and decide I'm not worth their time. It pits my interests against theirs, instead of aligning them as tipping is supposed to do. Tipping makes me their employer willy-nilly. I didn't pick them, I can't fire them (at least not without considerable difficulty). But I have to pay them, although we have no agreement as to details. Its a crazy system. P. S. I am the "adult white male" as in the article.

joonix 13y ago

I don't drink and nor large groups of friends I have, we're all used to this. As soon as a table demonstrates it's not ordering alcohol, waiters basically disappear for the night or give us attitude. Tipping is stressful for everyone. It's nonsense and broken. Non-tipping systems work just fine everywhere else.

larrys 13y ago
Why is it stressful for the customer? For what reason?
- michaelt 13y ago
  If "waiters basically disappear for the night or give us attitude" because they think you aren't spending enough?
- dkersten 13y ago
  Did you read the comment you replied to? That's why its stressful for the customer.
- bdavisx 13y ago
  Because sitting with an empty glass of water (or whatever) waiting to get it refilled before you continue eating is stressful - for me at least, I drink a lot when I'm eating. Trying to get the attention of a waitperson who doesn't want to wait on you is stressful.
- joonix 13y ago
  Because I get attitude from a person who is supposed to be serving me, as well as inattentive service. I don't think I need to explain why bad service is bad. Also, the actual act of tipping is uncomfortable. I have to write an amount that I feel adequately compensates the person for their effort and time. I really have no idea what that number should be. 15-20% is completely arbitrary. If I feel the service was bad, I now have to do a passive-aggressive low tip. And you know they are just going to think you tipped low because you're cheap, not because their service was bad.
  - larrys 13y ago
    Do you feel the same way on all tipping? (For example tipping the bellhop or tipping the maid at a hotel?) I'm not defending tipping I'm just curious how you feel about it in other cases.
- YcombRegBroken 13y ago
  Any time you are the subject of prejudice, it is a source of stress. While it isn't at the level of a classic civil rights struggle, it still exists. What prejudice? As the article says, if you look like the profile of a "bad tipper", you get shitty service. If you don't order alcohol/desserts/appetizers, shitty service. Split a large portion to not waste food? Shitty service. It's a shitty system.
- clicks 13y ago
  It's stressful because it often results in a lose-lose situation: if I tip poorly, this is not action that will learn them that what they did was somehow bad service, it'll just turn the situation into an antagonistic orientation. So, the next time I come in, I'm not really sure if he's gonna spit in my food. So in the end I always end up reluctantly tipping the same amount, no matter how the service was. Also, as a brown male, reading the article made it pretty clear why I receive markedly poorer service when I'm with my family (also brown), vs. when I'm eating out with my white friends. Being reminded of racism in this way is, well... pretty stressful. This essay was also posted on Reddit, and I saw similar responses from African American folks there: even though a lot of them tip pretty generously, they can sense that servers don't look forward to being at their table providing service, as if they're anticipating a bad tip.
  - larrys 13y ago
    Interestingly, and not trying to compare to what you experience but I'm not very tall and when I have to get a drink at a bar it's truly a challenge. And I always think "If I was one of those tall guys I would get better service". (I've not done anything to verify this other than it seems that way). Likewise sometimes I am in my car and someone looks over at me. I think "wow if I was a girl I would think they are looking at me because of that!" (Because I tend to check out girls!) My point is although there is no question you are subject to the actions you (and others describe) but it also could be the case that it happens for other reasons that have nothing to do with skin color. Make sense? Lastly, while I am white, I am of a religion that has a percentage of the population that is biased against us. But for some reason I haven't really experienced that bad treatment that I can link to my religion. I think this is because my last name doesn't scream the religion as some others do. One more thing. I'm married to a physician and I dated a physician. And when we are together people always assume I am the doctor or also a doctor. And they always seem to defer to me rather than my wife (or in the past girlfriend). My wife also has been treated by nurses without respect something they don't do to the male doctors.
    - clicks 13y ago
      > My point is although there is no question you are subject to the actions you (and others describe) but it also could be the case that it happens for other reasons that have nothing to do with skin color. I think that is a bit of a stretch. There is concrete evidence that explains this happens a lot, and it's clear that racism [1] and sexism [2] are a key part of it. And -- not as scientific here -- but there's intuition I have gathered that's backed up with 10 years of extensive dining out in various arrangements and settings, and anecdotes from my server friends about the politics in restaurants. [1] http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/Business_Considerations_Tipping_final.pdf http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/Business_Considerations_T... [2] http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/ServerAppearance1-3-08.pdf http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/ServerAppearance1-3-08.pd...