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I'm really amazed at how many people complain about Putin. Would you all prefer to live in the Russia of 50 years ago?

by cadalac 13y ago

pavs 13y ago
The comparison was not between putin's Russia and Russia 50 years ago. It was between Russia and USA. Despite everything that is fucked up and wrong with US Government, I would hope (perhaps naively), its still better than Russia in terms of human rights at least?
- jacquesm 13y ago
  > I would hope (perhaps naively), its still better than Russia in terms of human rights at least? That depends on a lot of factors: - are you homosexual - ethnically caucasian - A subscriber to Islam - have a name that matches the name of someone on a no-fly list - an 'enemy combatant' (ages 13 and up) - an activist of sorts Or anyone of a hundred other arbitrary criteria. Those could make the difference between a safe & secure life 'just' being harassed periodically by people in uniform or spending time in Gitmo or Siberia.
  - pavs 13y ago
    I agree with you and I am saying this from personal experience.
  - geoka9 13y ago
    > ethnically caucasian Actually, that matters in Russia a lot, too. Although, their meaning of the word is different (Russian Caucasians are people originated from around the Caucasian Mountains; that's where all the guerilla fighting is currently going on).
crdoconnor 13y ago
A not insignificant proportion of Russians do. You were guaranteed a job, a place to live and an education.
- jaxb 13y ago
  57% of those polled would prefer all that, today. Source: http://kommersant.ru/doc/2243079 http://kommersant.ru/doc/2243079
  - Demiurge 13y ago
    I am a recently naturalized US Citizen, from Russia. In magic scenario USSR would be restored, I would go back and work in an institute, like my father happily did.
    - ash 13y ago
      Before you happily go to (hypothetically restored) USSR, please read about the fate of Italian aircraft designer Robert Bartini, who moved to USSR in 1923. In 1938 he was imprisoned and spent 14 years working in sharashkas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ludvigovich_Bartini http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ludvigovich_Bartini http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka Be careful what you wish for.
      - geoka9 13y ago
        Hell, you didn't need to be an Italian to get "conscripted" into a sharashka. Some of the best Russian aircraft designers (e.g. Tupolev) were contributing to the Russian war (WWII) effort from prison.
        ash 13y ago
        Yes. In fact, Tupolev worked with Bartini in the same sharashka (TsKB 29 NKVD - ЦКБ 29 НКВД). See "Tupolevskaya Sharaga" by Kerber (in Russian): http://www.lib.ru/MEMUARY/KERBER/tupolewskaya_sharaga.txt http://www.lib.ru/MEMUARY/KERBER/tupolewskaya_sharaga.txt
      - Demiurge 13y ago
        Thanks, but I'm pretty sure I am aware of the actual ratio of the horror stories to reality. The reality is not as bleak as what the western propaganda made USSR out to be while it was out to destroy the only alternative political system on the same planet.
untog 13y ago
Just because Putin is better than Soviet misery doesn't make him good. Take a look at the recent anti-gay legislation, for example.
- gambiting 13y ago
  The problem is that most people wouldn't call it "Soviet misery". You were given a lot of things for free, so who cares you couldn't say bad things about the government? If you had a guaranteed job(at which you could just slack off and do nothing for the entire day with pretty much no consequences, since you knew you were getting paid at the end of the month regardless), free house/apartment paid for by the state, free medical care, free education, including higher education and state-sponsored holidays twice a year - why would you complain? In fact I come from a country which used to be communist(Poland) and a lot of people(older people) say that it was fantastic. Obviously they don't realize that these policies pretty much ruined our economy and were unsustainable in the long run, but they don't care - they want their nice jobs, free stuff from the government and paid holidays twice the year.
InclinedPlane 13y ago
"He's better than Stalin." Well, if that isn't the best damned endorsement in history!
mikeash 13y ago
That's basically the "at least we're better than North Korea" argument which has never ceased to be utterly stupid.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

I'm really amazed at how many people complain about Putin. Would you all prefer to live in the Russia of 50 years ago?

by cadalac 13y ago

I'm really amazed at how many people complain about Putin. Would you all prefer to live in the Russia of 50 years ago?

pavs 13y ago

The comparison was not between putin's Russia and Russia 50 years ago. It was between Russia and USA. Despite everything that is fucked up and wrong with US Government, I would hope (perhaps naively), its still better than Russia in terms of human rights at least?

jacquesm 13y ago
> I would hope (perhaps naively), its still better than Russia in terms of human rights at least? That depends on a lot of factors: - are you homosexual - ethnically caucasian - A subscriber to Islam - have a name that matches the name of someone on a no-fly list - an 'enemy combatant' (ages 13 and up) - an activist of sorts Or anyone of a hundred other arbitrary criteria. Those could make the difference between a safe & secure life 'just' being harassed periodically by people in uniform or spending time in Gitmo or Siberia.
- pavs 13y ago
  I agree with you and I am saying this from personal experience.
- geoka9 13y ago
  > ethnically caucasian Actually, that matters in Russia a lot, too. Although, their meaning of the word is different (Russian Caucasians are people originated from around the Caucasian Mountains; that's where all the guerilla fighting is currently going on).

crdoconnor 13y ago

A not insignificant proportion of Russians do. You were guaranteed a job, a place to live and an education.

jaxb 13y ago
57% of those polled would prefer all that, today. Source: http://kommersant.ru/doc/2243079 http://kommersant.ru/doc/2243079
- Demiurge 13y ago
  I am a recently naturalized US Citizen, from Russia. In magic scenario USSR would be restored, I would go back and work in an institute, like my father happily did.
  - ash 13y ago
    Before you happily go to (hypothetically restored) USSR, please read about the fate of Italian aircraft designer Robert Bartini, who moved to USSR in 1923. In 1938 he was imprisoned and spent 14 years working in sharashkas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ludvigovich_Bartini http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ludvigovich_Bartini http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka Be careful what you wish for.
    - geoka9 13y ago
      Hell, you didn't need to be an Italian to get "conscripted" into a sharashka. Some of the best Russian aircraft designers (e.g. Tupolev) were contributing to the Russian war (WWII) effort from prison.
      - ash 13y ago
        Yes. In fact, Tupolev worked with Bartini in the same sharashka (TsKB 29 NKVD - ЦКБ 29 НКВД). See "Tupolevskaya Sharaga" by Kerber (in Russian): http://www.lib.ru/MEMUARY/KERBER/tupolewskaya_sharaga.txt http://www.lib.ru/MEMUARY/KERBER/tupolewskaya_sharaga.txt
    - Demiurge 13y ago
      Thanks, but I'm pretty sure I am aware of the actual ratio of the horror stories to reality. The reality is not as bleak as what the western propaganda made USSR out to be while it was out to destroy the only alternative political system on the same planet.

untog 13y ago

Just because Putin is better than Soviet misery doesn't make him good. Take a look at the recent anti-gay legislation, for example.

gambiting 13y ago
The problem is that most people wouldn't call it "Soviet misery". You were given a lot of things for free, so who cares you couldn't say bad things about the government? If you had a guaranteed job(at which you could just slack off and do nothing for the entire day with pretty much no consequences, since you knew you were getting paid at the end of the month regardless), free house/apartment paid for by the state, free medical care, free education, including higher education and state-sponsored holidays twice a year - why would you complain? In fact I come from a country which used to be communist(Poland) and a lot of people(older people) say that it was fantastic. Obviously they don't realize that these policies pretty much ruined our economy and were unsustainable in the long run, but they don't care - they want their nice jobs, free stuff from the government and paid holidays twice the year.

InclinedPlane 13y ago

"He's better than Stalin." Well, if that isn't the best damned endorsement in history!

mikeash 13y ago

That's basically the "at least we're better than North Korea" argument which has never ceased to be utterly stupid.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]