7 ms·

It's reality because Mozilla makes it a reality. See how this is a circular argument? Meanwhile, native mobile and desktop keep growing, and growing, and the w

by pbsdp 13y ago

It's reality because Mozilla makes it a reality. See how this is a circular argument? Meanwhile, native mobile and desktop keep growing, and growing, and the web as an application platform loses out, because none of the native platform vendors are quibbling about whether they can convince themselves to ever do something different than what they were doing before.

gnaritas 13y ago
> Mozilla makes it a reality No, the situation makes it a reality; Mozilla doesn't control Apple or Microsoft.
- pbsdp 13y ago
  That didn't stop them from trying to launch a mobile phone platform in competition with Apple, Microsoft, and Google. If they're willing to accept that risk, by comparison, how large of a risk is trying to push through a better standardized browser execution environment, with Google's cooperation? God forbid they succeed, and we finally have a competitive application platform.
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    I see; you're the type who thinks he's smarter than everyone in the industry and just has all the answers and ignores anything that doesn't fit your idea. Never mind that no one has been able to replace JS, just listen to you and all those problems will evaporate. Goodbye.
    - pbsdp 13y ago
      > I see; you're the type who thinks he's smarter than everyone in the industry ... You mean, like Google, who continually pushes to do exactly what I've described here, only to be stymied by: - Apple, who has no reason to support the web as competitive to their native platform. - Microsoft, same. - Mozilla, who refuses to consider that there might be a world beyond HTML/CSS/JS because they believe those specific technologies are intrinsic qualities of the web, and thus central to their mission of supporting the web. Looks like the only people I disagree with are the Mozilla camp. Microsoft and Apple have different priorities, and Google is continually frustrated by exactly what I've described here.
      - gnaritas 13y ago
        > only to be stymied by: Reality. Imagine that.
        pbsdp 13y ago
        Yes, the reality is that proprietary application platforms are taking over the application market, and that the web is slowly losing one of its major market advantages: a huge brain trust of web-only engineers and web-only engineering organizations. Imagine that.
        marshray 13y ago
        You're joking, right?
        gnaritas 13y ago
        He's not; he thinks he's being insightful.
        pbsdp 13y ago
        What's your excuse? Mobile is growing hand-over-fist and web apps developers are still arguing about whether they're fast enough to compete, and whether we could possibly maybe actually move past HTML/CSS/JS sometime in this decade. It's ridiculous, and you claim it's "reality". Fine, your reality sucks, and there's no inherent reason why it has to win ... and it might not.
        gnaritas 13y ago
        There's only one reality, that's rather the point of the word. Web app developers and mobile app developers are different fields, they aren't competing. The web is and will likely remain HTML/CSS/JS because it works: EVERYWHERE, and it doesn't look like that'll be changing anytime soon.
thelukester 13y ago
For my company, this is exactly what's happening. Like Facebook, we found HTML5 to be insufficient for our app, so our resources have shifted to iOS and Android development. Native gives much better and consistent performance and UX, and the idea of write once-run anywhere on the web is still a pipedream. Cross-browser compatibility is still terrible. The problem with HTML5 is it was designed by committee for displaying documents not dynamic apps. While JS has come a long way to closing the gap with native performance, it's the other HLML5 tech that's holding the web back. CSS is ill-suited to be hardware acceleration and DOM is a performance sucking hack that kills the UX on mobile platforms.

by pbsdp 13y ago

gnaritas 13y ago

> Mozilla makes it a reality No, the situation makes it a reality; Mozilla doesn't control Apple or Microsoft.

pbsdp 13y ago
That didn't stop them from trying to launch a mobile phone platform in competition with Apple, Microsoft, and Google. If they're willing to accept that risk, by comparison, how large of a risk is trying to push through a better standardized browser execution environment, with Google's cooperation? God forbid they succeed, and we finally have a competitive application platform.
- gnaritas 13y ago
  I see; you're the type who thinks he's smarter than everyone in the industry and just has all the answers and ignores anything that doesn't fit your idea. Never mind that no one has been able to replace JS, just listen to you and all those problems will evaporate. Goodbye.
  - pbsdp 13y ago
    > I see; you're the type who thinks he's smarter than everyone in the industry ... You mean, like Google, who continually pushes to do exactly what I've described here, only to be stymied by: - Apple, who has no reason to support the web as competitive to their native platform. - Microsoft, same. - Mozilla, who refuses to consider that there might be a world beyond HTML/CSS/JS because they believe those specific technologies are intrinsic qualities of the web, and thus central to their mission of supporting the web. Looks like the only people I disagree with are the Mozilla camp. Microsoft and Apple have different priorities, and Google is continually frustrated by exactly what I've described here.
    - gnaritas 13y ago
      > only to be stymied by: Reality. Imagine that.
      - pbsdp 13y ago
        Yes, the reality is that proprietary application platforms are taking over the application market, and that the web is slowly losing one of its major market advantages: a huge brain trust of web-only engineers and web-only engineering organizations. Imagine that.
        marshray 13y ago
        You're joking, right?
        gnaritas 13y ago
        He's not; he thinks he's being insightful.
        pbsdp 13y ago
        What's your excuse? Mobile is growing hand-over-fist and web apps developers are still arguing about whether they're fast enough to compete, and whether we could possibly maybe actually move past HTML/CSS/JS sometime in this decade. It's ridiculous, and you claim it's "reality". Fine, your reality sucks, and there's no inherent reason why it has to win ... and it might not.
        gnaritas 13y ago
        There's only one reality, that's rather the point of the word. Web app developers and mobile app developers are different fields, they aren't competing. The web is and will likely remain HTML/CSS/JS because it works: EVERYWHERE, and it doesn't look like that'll be changing anytime soon.

thelukester 13y ago

For my company, this is exactly what's happening. Like Facebook, we found HTML5 to be insufficient for our app, so our resources have shifted to iOS and Android development. Native gives much better and consistent performance and UX, and the idea of write once-run anywhere on the web is still a pipedream. Cross-browser compatibility is still terrible. The problem with HTML5 is it was designed by committee for displaying documents not dynamic apps. While JS has come a long way to closing the gap with native performance, it's the other HLML5 tech that's holding the web back. CSS is ill-suited to be hardware acceleration and DOM is a performance sucking hack that kills the UX on mobile platforms.