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But EC is not suspending any data sharing deals (yet), which could have huge economic effects since it could mean that flights to the US are grounded. But it is

But EC is not suspending any data sharing deals (yet), which could have huge economic effects since it could mean that flights to the US are grounded. But it is my understanding that the US would be the one that would order flights to be grounded if the EU no longer meets the requirements of the data sharing agreement.

smackay 13y ago
You know, I'd really like to see what would happen when "push came to shove". It would either tear-off the fig-leaf of terrorism or the rest of the world would really understand that the US government has developed into a paranoid, frightened, bully. However, more likely is that some deal would be struck (behind closed doors, of course) that would allow business to continue as usual - shutting down most if not all transatlantic commerce would be a gargantuan step for anyone to take. I don't think that would change the long term direction this issue is heading in though. We're either going to end up with court supervised limited snooping and more transparent governments or an all-pervasive surveillance state where absolutely everything is going to be hoovered up and stored for later use. UPDATE: One of the goals of the European Union is to avoid war on the continent. With the road of economic and political integration riddled with pot-holes of various sizes perhaps the new direction to unite everybody is personal freedom - freedom of movement, freedom of speech, etc. Europe certainly has the history to justify why these are laudable goals. With partner countries such as Iceland (which has Europe's longest running parliament) showing the necessary leadership, the time has come for Old Europe to become Bold Europe.
- Svip 13y ago
  > the time has come for Old Europe to become Bold Europe I like that. But understanding Iceland's position is important. Iceland is due to its position, natural resources and political influence extremely free to do what it likes without threatening its diplomatic relationships. Iceland can effectively 'show the necessary leadership' because they have little or nothing to lose, at least not as much as their European countries. In addition, Iceland has been blessed (although not currently) with a rather progressive political environment. Other European countries are unfortunately not so lucky, and they are afraid to risk too much of it by being bold. However, if the European countries gather together to be bold, then the risk is vastly reduced. But of course, this is one of the purposes of the EU; alone we are weak, together we are strong.
- pcrh 13y ago
  >Old Europe to become Bold Europe. The country most likely to lead any such move would be Germany; Germans are today extremely well-inoculated against disingenuous reassurances by governments.
  - 1337biz 13y ago
    Putting Germany and bold in a sentence seems still to go down badly across many European nations. Some might even suggest that (the/a) purpose of the European idea was to keep a reunified Germany from going bold again.
    - Dewie 13y ago
      What, really? Is there really a tangible fear that Germany would blow up in everyones faces again, still today?
      - pcrh 13y ago
        The EU has a non-zero risk of fracturing. Consider for example the anti-German sentiment that was widespread in Greece at the height of their recent financial crisis.
      - nhaehnle 13y ago
        Some would say that it has already happened. Germany's behavior of pushing austerity everywhere and depressing German wages has played and still plays a significant role in causing and prolonging the economic depression that a number of countries in the south of the Eurozone are currently in. It's not in-your-face as a war is, but does that really matter for the people who suffer from it?
    - claudius 13y ago
      That worked rather, uh, well: http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2011/11/polands-appeal-germany http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2011/11/pol... On the other hand, it works relatively well if you only consider going to war against each other within Europe, which definitely was the main concern in the 1950s. How peaceful this united Europe is towards other countries is another question altogether – again resorting to history does not necessarily offer hope.

smackay 13y ago

You know, I'd really like to see what would happen when "push came to shove". It would either tear-off the fig-leaf of terrorism or the rest of the world would really understand that the US government has developed into a paranoid, frightened, bully. However, more likely is that some deal would be struck (behind closed doors, of course) that would allow business to continue as usual - shutting down most if not all transatlantic commerce would be a gargantuan step for anyone to take. I don't think that would change the long term direction this issue is heading in though. We're either going to end up with court supervised limited snooping and more transparent governments or an all-pervasive surveillance state where absolutely everything is going to be hoovered up and stored for later use. UPDATE: One of the goals of the European Union is to avoid war on the continent. With the road of economic and political integration riddled with pot-holes of various sizes perhaps the new direction to unite everybody is personal freedom - freedom of movement, freedom of speech, etc. Europe certainly has the history to justify why these are laudable goals. With partner countries such as Iceland (which has Europe's longest running parliament) showing the necessary leadership, the time has come for Old Europe to become Bold Europe.

Svip 13y ago
> the time has come for Old Europe to become Bold Europe I like that. But understanding Iceland's position is important. Iceland is due to its position, natural resources and political influence extremely free to do what it likes without threatening its diplomatic relationships. Iceland can effectively 'show the necessary leadership' because they have little or nothing to lose, at least not as much as their European countries. In addition, Iceland has been blessed (although not currently) with a rather progressive political environment. Other European countries are unfortunately not so lucky, and they are afraid to risk too much of it by being bold. However, if the European countries gather together to be bold, then the risk is vastly reduced. But of course, this is one of the purposes of the EU; alone we are weak, together we are strong.
pcrh 13y ago
>Old Europe to become Bold Europe. The country most likely to lead any such move would be Germany; Germans are today extremely well-inoculated against disingenuous reassurances by governments.
- 1337biz 13y ago
  Putting Germany and bold in a sentence seems still to go down badly across many European nations. Some might even suggest that (the/a) purpose of the European idea was to keep a reunified Germany from going bold again.
  - Dewie 13y ago
    What, really? Is there really a tangible fear that Germany would blow up in everyones faces again, still today?
    - pcrh 13y ago
      The EU has a non-zero risk of fracturing. Consider for example the anti-German sentiment that was widespread in Greece at the height of their recent financial crisis.
    - nhaehnle 13y ago
      Some would say that it has already happened. Germany's behavior of pushing austerity everywhere and depressing German wages has played and still plays a significant role in causing and prolonging the economic depression that a number of countries in the south of the Eurozone are currently in. It's not in-your-face as a war is, but does that really matter for the people who suffer from it?
  - claudius 13y ago
    That worked rather, uh, well: http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2011/11/polands-appeal-germany http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2011/11/pol... On the other hand, it works relatively well if you only consider going to war against each other within Europe, which definitely was the main concern in the 1950s. How peaceful this united Europe is towards other countries is another question altogether – again resorting to history does not necessarily offer hope.