6 ms·

Last month Jobbik rallied against the World Jewish Congress in Budapest, protesting "against what it said was a Jewish attempt to buy up Hungary". http://www.b

by davnola 13y ago

Last month Jobbik rallied against the World Jewish Congress in Budapest, protesting "against what it said was a Jewish attempt to buy up Hungary". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22413301 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22413301 They frame themselves as fascist and anti-semite.

friendly_chap 13y ago
No they don't frame themselves as that! Simon Peres said they are buying up Manhattan, Hungary etc...[1] Now Jobbik is not against the Jews. They are against the fact that they (admitted by them) buying up our country! If Barack Obama would say the same they would protest against the USA. Would that make them or me an antiUSAic? No! Wether they are Jews, aliens, englishmen or bushmans or whatever, we don't like other people buying up our country! That's all. It's not a race issue. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL4Cu-K17vE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL4Cu-K17vE
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  Hi, I'm an Israeli Jew. The entire latter half of your "evidence" video is completely mistranslated. I would have to say deliberately. Shimon Peres is talking about how amazing it is that Israel has achieved developed-country status. Pashut ein lanu maspik shuk mekomi gadol. That doesn't mean anything about our talents or dynamism. It literally reads: "We simply don't have enough of a large local market." He's talking about Israeli exports. The sentence "Anachnu konim et Manhattan, et ...." (literally: We are buying Manhattan, ....) does occur early in the video, but without a whole lot of additional context it's meaningless. He's using a simple, conversational mode of Hebrew there, in which it could mean "We're conspiring to purchase all the buildings in these countries with our Joo Moniez", but it much more likely means, "Israelis can now buy apartments in these locations." So basically, your far-right is playing the Jooz Card to pacify your proper rage against the consequences of neoliberal economic policies in Hungary. I'm descended from a once-somewhat-prominent Hungarian Jewish family, but if you actually believe this kind of crap, the chance I'm visiting Budapest where my great-grandparents lived any time soon is basically null.
  - friendly_chap 13y ago
    I am also descended partly from a Hungarian Jewish family. I think Shimon Peres is not talking about "Israelis can now buy apartments in these locations" scenario, Jewish people can do that for like decades, that would have no frigging information content. So why should I believe that?
    - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
      I think Shimon Peres is not talking about "Israelis can now buy apartments in these locations" scenario, Jewish people can do that for like decades, It was allowed for decades, yes, but it's only in the past decade or so that Israel has achieved the wealth of a First World country. It used to be that an Israeli would need a foreign, First World source of income to buy property outside Israel. Hell, it sometimes used to be (and still is, in the premier locations of Israel!) that an Israeli would need an exogenous income source (family savings or illicit money or something) to afford property in Israel! But the thing is, given only 40 seconds of footage clipped out and mistranslated by a far-right nutter, I can't tell you for crap what Peres actually meant. I can, however, assure you that neither Jews nor Israelis own whole cities.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
  - wslh 13y ago
    The recent history of Hungary is very sad, and we must remember also that it was also a model in education in the past and the best minds, including John von Neumann, came from Hungary. The list on Wikipedia is illustrative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hungarians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hungarians For a quick overview of the Hungarian history I recommend the film Sunshine (1999): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0145503/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0145503/
    - friendly_chap 13y ago
      I did not see that particular movie yet but the movies are generally not a good source of information.
- tome 13y ago
  > There is also an ongoing international propaganda about how "antisemitic" are we. > Simon Peres said they are buying up Manhattan, Hungary etc. Umm ...
  - friendly_chap 13y ago
    So if I dare to repeat a possibly threatening sentence said by a Jewish person I am instantly antisemitic? Give me a break!
    - icebraining 13y ago
      The difference is that if you were talking about an US president, you wouldn't refer to him as "a Christian person".
      - tome 13y ago
        To be fair to friendly_chap, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "So if I dare to repeat a possibly threatening sentence said by a Jewish person I am instantly antisemitic?" or "So if I dare to repeat a possibly threatening sentence said by a Christian person I am instantly anti-Christian?"
      - Vivtek 13y ago
        Do please recall that friendly_chap is not a native English speaker.
        icebraining 13y ago
        Neither am I. But I don't think that would have any effect in this matter.
      - Vivtek 13y ago
        Also, it's widely known that the US president is a Muslim.
        deleted 13y ago
- Vivtek 13y ago
  Downvote him all you want, but foreigners buying up the country really is a serious problem here. It's very unfortunate that the only politically coherent party questioning it happens to be antisemitic, but it's still a real issue. And friendly_chap? I hate to break this to you, but we have bought your country. Who do you think owns Gyõri Keksz now? Wholly owned subsidiary of Kraft Foods - I just noticed that label last week. Sorry, man. I've stopped buying Gyõri Keksz in protest, but I don't think it's going to help. Also, they're made in Slovakia now. I'm sure they work cheaper.
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
So it's the mafia versus the fascists. Fuck.
Vivtek 13y ago
They do, actually, because it wins them votes. But the issues with corporatism that the parent is citing are very real ones; Hungarian politicians and business leaders alike (anyone who sees an opportunity to enrich themselves at the expense of the nation) have been very quick to sell parts of Hungary to anybody in Europe. There is one remaining grocery chain that is Hungarian. The malls are Austrian. The phone company is German. The gas company is French. Land ownership is being concentrated in the hands of a very few, very rich individuals - partly simply because the average salary here is about $500 a month, and partly because of policy explicitly crafted to this end. (For example, the government now requires agricultural certification for you to work your own land. The only option is often to sell.) All this works to the benefit of the richer European countries, so they're cool with it. Jobbik is one of the very few voices in the Hungarian political scene that questions any of this at all - so it's not just out of the goodness of European media's hearts that they report on the most lurid details of their admittedly unfortunate rhetoric. Do you really think Germany is worried about antisemitism? Did you realize that Angela Merkel actually "joked" (scare quotes intentional) that the Hungarian situation wasn't yet dire enough to require Germany to come in here with tanks? Because you can bet that Hungarians do, in fact, remember the last such incident - and some of my wife's own family died in the concentration camps. And no, my wife's family never left Hungary, and yeah, they're Jewish. She didn't even know about it herself until about twenty years ago, but I will say that the synagogue downtown is still there. Nobody burns it down, and they still have services as far as I know. They certainly have lots of papers posted in Hebrew.

by davnola 13y ago

friendly_chap 13y ago

No they don't frame themselves as that! Simon Peres said they are buying up Manhattan, Hungary etc...[1] Now Jobbik is not against the Jews. They are against the fact that they (admitted by them) buying up our country! If Barack Obama would say the same they would protest against the USA. Would that make them or me an antiUSAic? No! Wether they are Jews, aliens, englishmen or bushmans or whatever, we don't like other people buying up our country! That's all. It's not a race issue. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL4Cu-K17vE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL4Cu-K17vE

eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Hi, I'm an Israeli Jew. The entire latter half of your "evidence" video is completely mistranslated. I would have to say deliberately. Shimon Peres is talking about how amazing it is that Israel has achieved developed-country status. Pashut ein lanu maspik shuk mekomi gadol. That doesn't mean anything about our talents or dynamism. It literally reads: "We simply don't have enough of a large local market." He's talking about Israeli exports. The sentence "Anachnu konim et Manhattan, et ...." (literally: We are buying Manhattan, ....) does occur early in the video, but without a whole lot of additional context it's meaningless. He's using a simple, conversational mode of Hebrew there, in which it could mean "We're conspiring to purchase all the buildings in these countries with our Joo Moniez", but it much more likely means, "Israelis can now buy apartments in these locations." So basically, your far-right is playing the Jooz Card to pacify your proper rage against the consequences of neoliberal economic policies in Hungary. I'm descended from a once-somewhat-prominent Hungarian Jewish family, but if you actually believe this kind of crap, the chance I'm visiting Budapest where my great-grandparents lived any time soon is basically null.
- friendly_chap 13y ago
  I am also descended partly from a Hungarian Jewish family. I think Shimon Peres is not talking about "Israelis can now buy apartments in these locations" scenario, Jewish people can do that for like decades, that would have no frigging information content. So why should I believe that?
  - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
    I think Shimon Peres is not talking about "Israelis can now buy apartments in these locations" scenario, Jewish people can do that for like decades, It was allowed for decades, yes, but it's only in the past decade or so that Israel has achieved the wealth of a First World country. It used to be that an Israeli would need a foreign, First World source of income to buy property outside Israel. Hell, it sometimes used to be (and still is, in the premier locations of Israel!) that an Israeli would need an exogenous income source (family savings or illicit money or something) to afford property in Israel! But the thing is, given only 40 seconds of footage clipped out and mistranslated by a far-right nutter, I can't tell you for crap what Peres actually meant. I can, however, assure you that neither Jews nor Israelis own whole cities.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- wslh 13y ago
  The recent history of Hungary is very sad, and we must remember also that it was also a model in education in the past and the best minds, including John von Neumann, came from Hungary. The list on Wikipedia is illustrative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hungarians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hungarians For a quick overview of the Hungarian history I recommend the film Sunshine (1999): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0145503/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0145503/
  - friendly_chap 13y ago
    I did not see that particular movie yet but the movies are generally not a good source of information.
tome 13y ago
> There is also an ongoing international propaganda about how "antisemitic" are we. > Simon Peres said they are buying up Manhattan, Hungary etc. Umm ...
- friendly_chap 13y ago
  So if I dare to repeat a possibly threatening sentence said by a Jewish person I am instantly antisemitic? Give me a break!
  - icebraining 13y ago
    The difference is that if you were talking about an US president, you wouldn't refer to him as "a Christian person".
    - tome 13y ago
      To be fair to friendly_chap, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "So if I dare to repeat a possibly threatening sentence said by a Jewish person I am instantly antisemitic?" or "So if I dare to repeat a possibly threatening sentence said by a Christian person I am instantly anti-Christian?"
    - Vivtek 13y ago
      Do please recall that friendly_chap is not a native English speaker.
      - icebraining 13y ago
        Neither am I. But I don't think that would have any effect in this matter.
    - Vivtek 13y ago
      Also, it's widely known that the US president is a Muslim.
      - deleted 13y ago
Vivtek 13y ago
Downvote him all you want, but foreigners buying up the country really is a serious problem here. It's very unfortunate that the only politically coherent party questioning it happens to be antisemitic, but it's still a real issue. And friendly_chap? I hate to break this to you, but we have bought your country. Who do you think owns Gyõri Keksz now? Wholly owned subsidiary of Kraft Foods - I just noticed that label last week. Sorry, man. I've stopped buying Gyõri Keksz in protest, but I don't think it's going to help. Also, they're made in Slovakia now. I'm sure they work cheaper.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

So it's the mafia versus the fascists. Fuck.

Vivtek 13y ago

They do, actually, because it wins them votes. But the issues with corporatism that the parent is citing are very real ones; Hungarian politicians and business leaders alike (anyone who sees an opportunity to enrich themselves at the expense of the nation) have been very quick to sell parts of Hungary to anybody in Europe. There is one remaining grocery chain that is Hungarian. The malls are Austrian. The phone company is German. The gas company is French. Land ownership is being concentrated in the hands of a very few, very rich individuals - partly simply because the average salary here is about $500 a month, and partly because of policy explicitly crafted to this end. (For example, the government now requires agricultural certification for you to work your own land. The only option is often to sell.) All this works to the benefit of the richer European countries, so they're cool with it. Jobbik is one of the very few voices in the Hungarian political scene that questions any of this at all - so it's not just out of the goodness of European media's hearts that they report on the most lurid details of their admittedly unfortunate rhetoric. Do you really think Germany is worried about antisemitism? Did you realize that Angela Merkel actually "joked" (scare quotes intentional) that the Hungarian situation wasn't yet dire enough to require Germany to come in here with tanks? Because you can bet that Hungarians do, in fact, remember the last such incident - and some of my wife's own family died in the concentration camps. And no, my wife's family never left Hungary, and yeah, they're Jewish. She didn't even know about it herself until about twenty years ago, but I will say that the synagogue downtown is still there. Nobody burns it down, and they still have services as far as I know. They certainly have lots of papers posted in Hebrew.