5 ms·

Even if my pay was doubled, I wouldn't be able to afford to live in or near London. However, I can afford a comfortable lifestyle in rural Yorkshire (house, car

Even if my pay was doubled, I wouldn't be able to afford to live in or near London. However, I can afford a comfortable lifestyle in rural Yorkshire (house, car, holidays, internet access, good food, days out etc etc) on a modest pay packet. The rent for my 17th century cottage with garden in a Yorkshire village wouldn't get me a room in a shared house in an undesirable part of London. I don't understand the pull of the capital. It's overcrowded, noisy and dirty, even in its 'desirable' areas. The oil sheikhs and Russian oligarchs can keep it. I'd much rather live up here even if I had enough money to live in London!

simonbarker87 13y ago
Couldn't agree more, I live in Newcastle (Upon Tyne) and wonder why all my friends headed down south after uni - for "the salary" was their reasoning but none of them have savings and their salary goes into rent, commuting and maintain an expensive social life. I'd much rather be here in Newcastle and be able to afford to live and save - just wish the weather were a little better
- twic 13y ago
  It's great that you two feel that way. As someone who grew up in cities in the south and now lives in London, i'd rather saw my own leg off than live in rural Yorkshire. There just isn't anything there that appeals to me. Newcastle would be less scary - i'd only give up a foot to avoid living there. This is not in any way a slight against either Yorkshire or Newcastle. Just an observation that one man's meat is another man's poison.
  - petercooper 13y ago
    Rxactly. I felt the same when, as a teenager, my parents moved from Surrey to rural Lincolnshire and I had to go along for the ride. 15 years on, I now love living in such a rural area (and also married with kids!) but it's pointless if you want to easily see the latest bands, have a large and sophisticated social circle, easily meet people you do non-rural business with, enjoy the latest in fashion or food, easily travel to other places without driving, etc.. On the flip side, I can easily go off roading, take my daughters to see farm animals every week, zero traffic jams, low crime, low cost of living, etc, so it's all swings and roundabouts! (And we even have fibre Internet, oddly, so it even ticks my geek box ;-))
  - simonbarker87 13y ago
    Agreed, if you're smart then living in the south can be financially better. However I would say that my hobbies and interests (road and mountain biking) would be a lot harder in London - I grew up in Essex so appreciate the difference in the north and south - I'm not really interested in the social side of a city so that's another plus point to the north for me but for, many, a big negative compared to London. A friend of mine recently moved him and his start up from London to Keswick and is loving it - it's all about aligning where you live with whats important to you. ps. Given the love of football up here (sadly) you'll be needing that foot of yours!
- TheAnimus 13y ago
  Everyone I know in London who is < 30 (I moved here 7 years ago) has the same notion, that it is temporary. The wages are so good here, so long as you don't blow it on a £2k pcm flat in a tendy part of town you can save a lot of money, very quickly. Myself by having a 35-50min (depending on traffic and my exhuastion!) I find my accomodation costs are comparatively very low, despite still getting a London weighted income. This means I can not only service my modest flats mortgage easily, but am also buying a place in the middle of the mountains, so I can be a hermit. Last time I looked outside of London, I would earn less than half what I get in London. I'm happy living in Zone 4 (where 1 is the central area), which means my rent is cheap. Going for a meal out or similar probably costs less than up north. At least comparing it to Manchester / Leeds / Lake District. However, it is very non-terminal. I think five more years, then rent my London place, move either to subberbs and expensive commute, but house. Or hopefully, give up working for someone else all together. Not only did I meet my business partner via London network of friends, but also I built enough of a cash pile to be able to work full time on it. None of those things would have happened if I was on £35k with £700pcm costs. I'll take £150k with £1200pcm every time.
- gman99 13y ago
  As someone who went to Uni in Durham and loves the countryside; (but still loved his two year stay in London), I can give you another reason: The sheer variety in cheap cultural things to do. I'm not saying Newcastle lacks decent culture, just that it's not cheap. When living in London, I used to make frequent trips to The Globe (£7 tickets), National Theatre (£12), Sadler's Wells (£15), Museums (free) plus other great Opera's, plays, contemporary dance, etc all over the city, all for around £15 (usually a lot less) or free. I've since moved out of London as I started missing the countryside, but don't be so quick to dismiss everyone who does not make the same choices as you do. The grime, overcrowding, noise & smoke of the city is more than compensated for by the amazing public transport and world class cultural events (again, for <£15 -- Newcastle has great cultural venues but even if they are of the same standard I could not afford to go regularly as it was more than twice as expensive) I would never have discovered my love for Classical music, Ballet or Opera if the opportunities weren't so numerous and the tickets so cheap.
  - simonbarker87 13y ago
    Fair enough, that is something I hadn't considered (nor realised how cheap it could be) - although I would counter to say that I wouldn't have discovered road biking or surfing (with a hefty wet suit mind you!) if I wasn't in the north east's easy access to both - 10 minutes on the bike and I am in the countryside. It's swings and roundabouts I guess.
    - gman99 13y ago
      I completely agree. I would not have discovered the joys of hiking and hillwalking if it wasn't for my four years at Durham (and "relatively" easy access to the Lake District). Overall, my love of the countryside trumps cheap access to live plays/concerts/public transport/museums/etc; that's why I moved out. My point is just that there are definitely reasons why people would choose to live in the city (reasons I did not fully appreciate until I lived in London) Swings & roundabouts, as you say :)
  - rdouble 13y ago
    I've found the same thing is true about NYC. There are loads of free and cheap things to do. Especially during the summer. Much more so than most other US cities, where everything is pay-to-play and you have to pay for driving and parking as well.
lifeisstillgood 13y ago
I keep banging on about how remote working will enable the spread of resort / rural living, and yet it is not quite true. I am going to guess that you live within some commutable distance of your or your wife's family, and that one of the things you would lose moving to London would be that connection to family. Its probably the biggest thing holding most of us from heading for a nice cheap rural life. PS, apply for a grant from the Yorkshire Tourist board !
njs12345 13y ago
If you don't mind me asking, how much do you earn? If you're on the median UK national income and you double it you'd very easily be able to live in a nice place in London. Your lifestyle would of course be very different, but not necessarily worse (I'd rather take good public transport than drive, for instance). Housing is the only thing that's objectively worse, unless you have kids, that is..
- andyking 13y ago
  I work for a non-profit organisation and I'm considerably below the median income. There are jobs going, doing what I do for wages that are quite a bit higher - but they're all in London. An absolutely ideal job came up last week, but it's in Southwark. I just couldn't do it... so I stay here, where I'm reasonably settled and happy.
philh 13y ago
> The rent for my 17th century cottage with garden in a Yorkshire village wouldn't get me a room in a shared house in an undesirable part of London. Maybe I'm only confused because I've never lived in a village, but... You're paying significantly less than £700 pcm (including bills and council tax) for that?
- drakeandrews 13y ago
  I rent a two bed flat with two other people in a nice part of Zone 3, paying ~£500pcm for rent and council tax (together we're paying about ~£1300pcm total). I could quite happily rent a two bedroom cottage in the lake district and pay all my bills out of that £500.
jzwinck 13y ago
> The oil sheikhs and Russian oligarchs can keep it. I'd much rather live up here even if I had enough money to live in London! And your government is making sure they do keep it, by "reducing net migration" of working people whilst granting a Tier 1 visa to anyone with one million pounds in the UK banking system. It's "pay to stay," and the offer stands at US $1.6 million. Refer: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/tier1/investor/ http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/...

simonbarker87 13y ago

Couldn't agree more, I live in Newcastle (Upon Tyne) and wonder why all my friends headed down south after uni - for "the salary" was their reasoning but none of them have savings and their salary goes into rent, commuting and maintain an expensive social life. I'd much rather be here in Newcastle and be able to afford to live and save - just wish the weather were a little better

twic 13y ago
It's great that you two feel that way. As someone who grew up in cities in the south and now lives in London, i'd rather saw my own leg off than live in rural Yorkshire. There just isn't anything there that appeals to me. Newcastle would be less scary - i'd only give up a foot to avoid living there. This is not in any way a slight against either Yorkshire or Newcastle. Just an observation that one man's meat is another man's poison.
- petercooper 13y ago
  Rxactly. I felt the same when, as a teenager, my parents moved from Surrey to rural Lincolnshire and I had to go along for the ride. 15 years on, I now love living in such a rural area (and also married with kids!) but it's pointless if you want to easily see the latest bands, have a large and sophisticated social circle, easily meet people you do non-rural business with, enjoy the latest in fashion or food, easily travel to other places without driving, etc.. On the flip side, I can easily go off roading, take my daughters to see farm animals every week, zero traffic jams, low crime, low cost of living, etc, so it's all swings and roundabouts! (And we even have fibre Internet, oddly, so it even ticks my geek box ;-))
- simonbarker87 13y ago
  Agreed, if you're smart then living in the south can be financially better. However I would say that my hobbies and interests (road and mountain biking) would be a lot harder in London - I grew up in Essex so appreciate the difference in the north and south - I'm not really interested in the social side of a city so that's another plus point to the north for me but for, many, a big negative compared to London. A friend of mine recently moved him and his start up from London to Keswick and is loving it - it's all about aligning where you live with whats important to you. ps. Given the love of football up here (sadly) you'll be needing that foot of yours!
TheAnimus 13y ago
Everyone I know in London who is < 30 (I moved here 7 years ago) has the same notion, that it is temporary. The wages are so good here, so long as you don't blow it on a £2k pcm flat in a tendy part of town you can save a lot of money, very quickly. Myself by having a 35-50min (depending on traffic and my exhuastion!) I find my accomodation costs are comparatively very low, despite still getting a London weighted income. This means I can not only service my modest flats mortgage easily, but am also buying a place in the middle of the mountains, so I can be a hermit. Last time I looked outside of London, I would earn less than half what I get in London. I'm happy living in Zone 4 (where 1 is the central area), which means my rent is cheap. Going for a meal out or similar probably costs less than up north. At least comparing it to Manchester / Leeds / Lake District. However, it is very non-terminal. I think five more years, then rent my London place, move either to subberbs and expensive commute, but house. Or hopefully, give up working for someone else all together. Not only did I meet my business partner via London network of friends, but also I built enough of a cash pile to be able to work full time on it. None of those things would have happened if I was on £35k with £700pcm costs. I'll take £150k with £1200pcm every time.
gman99 13y ago
As someone who went to Uni in Durham and loves the countryside; (but still loved his two year stay in London), I can give you another reason: The sheer variety in cheap cultural things to do. I'm not saying Newcastle lacks decent culture, just that it's not cheap. When living in London, I used to make frequent trips to The Globe (£7 tickets), National Theatre (£12), Sadler's Wells (£15), Museums (free) plus other great Opera's, plays, contemporary dance, etc all over the city, all for around £15 (usually a lot less) or free. I've since moved out of London as I started missing the countryside, but don't be so quick to dismiss everyone who does not make the same choices as you do. The grime, overcrowding, noise & smoke of the city is more than compensated for by the amazing public transport and world class cultural events (again, for <£15 -- Newcastle has great cultural venues but even if they are of the same standard I could not afford to go regularly as it was more than twice as expensive) I would never have discovered my love for Classical music, Ballet or Opera if the opportunities weren't so numerous and the tickets so cheap.
- simonbarker87 13y ago
  Fair enough, that is something I hadn't considered (nor realised how cheap it could be) - although I would counter to say that I wouldn't have discovered road biking or surfing (with a hefty wet suit mind you!) if I wasn't in the north east's easy access to both - 10 minutes on the bike and I am in the countryside. It's swings and roundabouts I guess.
  - gman99 13y ago
    I completely agree. I would not have discovered the joys of hiking and hillwalking if it wasn't for my four years at Durham (and "relatively" easy access to the Lake District). Overall, my love of the countryside trumps cheap access to live plays/concerts/public transport/museums/etc; that's why I moved out. My point is just that there are definitely reasons why people would choose to live in the city (reasons I did not fully appreciate until I lived in London) Swings & roundabouts, as you say :)
- rdouble 13y ago
  I've found the same thing is true about NYC. There are loads of free and cheap things to do. Especially during the summer. Much more so than most other US cities, where everything is pay-to-play and you have to pay for driving and parking as well.

lifeisstillgood 13y ago

I keep banging on about how remote working will enable the spread of resort / rural living, and yet it is not quite true. I am going to guess that you live within some commutable distance of your or your wife's family, and that one of the things you would lose moving to London would be that connection to family. Its probably the biggest thing holding most of us from heading for a nice cheap rural life. PS, apply for a grant from the Yorkshire Tourist board !

njs12345 13y ago

If you don't mind me asking, how much do you earn? If you're on the median UK national income and you double it you'd very easily be able to live in a nice place in London. Your lifestyle would of course be very different, but not necessarily worse (I'd rather take good public transport than drive, for instance). Housing is the only thing that's objectively worse, unless you have kids, that is..

andyking 13y ago
I work for a non-profit organisation and I'm considerably below the median income. There are jobs going, doing what I do for wages that are quite a bit higher - but they're all in London. An absolutely ideal job came up last week, but it's in Southwark. I just couldn't do it... so I stay here, where I'm reasonably settled and happy.

philh 13y ago

> The rent for my 17th century cottage with garden in a Yorkshire village wouldn't get me a room in a shared house in an undesirable part of London. Maybe I'm only confused because I've never lived in a village, but... You're paying significantly less than £700 pcm (including bills and council tax) for that?

drakeandrews 13y ago
I rent a two bed flat with two other people in a nice part of Zone 3, paying ~£500pcm for rent and council tax (together we're paying about ~£1300pcm total). I could quite happily rent a two bedroom cottage in the lake district and pay all my bills out of that £500.

jzwinck 13y ago

> The oil sheikhs and Russian oligarchs can keep it. I'd much rather live up here even if I had enough money to live in London! And your government is making sure they do keep it, by "reducing net migration" of working people whilst granting a Tier 1 visa to anyone with one million pounds in the UK banking system. It's "pay to stay," and the offer stands at US $1.6 million. Refer: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/tier1/investor/ http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/...