8 ms·

I grew up a Jehovah's Witness (now attend a Presbyterian Church), and every piece of data in this article that touches them is bullshit. The idea that gold-rim

by schoper 13y ago

I grew up a Jehovah's Witness (now attend a Presbyterian Church), and every piece of data in this article that touches them is bullshit. The idea that gold-rimmed glasses are banned is just bizarre. You may see a different pair of Witnesses come by at different times because that was who was out that day, not because there is any tactic. There are no "immediate superiors." You are not disfellowshipped for "questioning an order," the idea that you even get "orders" is foolish. I suppose that idleness is a sin in some vague way, but it's not highlighted, and is no more so than for other Christians (ie., the Protestant work ethic). You can't lie or cheat, but you can drink. Maybe he's thinking Baptists? Also, you are not allowed to "lie for the cause." Witnesses don't refuse medical treatments in general, but do refuse blood transfusions. Getting every single point wrong takes some special talent. So I assume everything else in the article about similar (or more cultish groups) is also wrong, though I am not an expert. On the other hand, someone should definitely write an article about why the Apostle Paul was a great startup founder.

jes 13y ago
With respect, I don't think the article gets every point wrong, but there may be some merit in what you have written. I did a bit of reading. First, if you search the web, you can find articles about wire-rimmed glasses being banned for some period of time in some Jehovah's Witness congregations. I didn't find anything about gold-rimmed glasses specifically: http://yucatan2012.com/Yucatan2012/MysticChristianity/E46336E5-B3D6-4652-AEF5-2E1CDD638676.html http://yucatan2012.com/Yucatan2012/MysticChristianity/E46336... There is also some information on "Theocratic War Strategy," for example, in this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_practices http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_practices From the article cited above, there is this quote attributed to the Watchtower Society: "It is proper to cover over our arrangements for the work that God commands us to do. ...."
- protomyth 13y ago
  I'm not sure I would link a source that is about "Christian and Mayan spirituality and our approach to health and fitness" that gets all its information from a site called towerwatch.com with the motto "Helping Christians Reach Jehovah's Witnesses with the Gospel of Our Savior Jesus Christ".
jacoblyles 13y ago
As an ex-Jehovah's Witness, I agree this article gets a lot of things wrong. But they also are a crazy cult. I suggest the book "Crisis of Conscience" from an ex-governing body member if you're interested in JW's seedy history[1]. They started as a numerology-obsessed doomsday cult and evolved from there - the last time JWs sold off their possessions in anticipation of the end of the world was 1974, but it wasn't the first time. Today things aren't quite as bad, but they're still bad: 1) I wasn't allowed to have non-Jehovah's Witness friends or participate in after-school activities 2) Higher education was discouraged (I understood that it had been prohibited in earlier years, but they liberalized with the times). The idea is that you should spend your life serving the lord and not seeking material gain. 3) Reading non-Jehovah's Witness books on religious topics is prohibited. Some of the Church Services ("meetings") consist of reading verbatim word-for-word material handed down from the central organization ("the society"). Sermons ("talks") are written by cobbling together recent material put out by the society. 4) They practice shunning of ex-members (JWs will not talk to an ex-JW. I have no friends from childhood that will speak to me) 5) They do require a huge time commitment - door-to-door ("field service") at least once a week and three meetings per week. 6) They believe all other religions are products of the devil, sent to deceive mankind. Theirs is the only correct one. [1] http://www.amazon.com/CRISIS-OF-CONSCIENCE-Raymond-Edition/dp/1484821262/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1371362888&sr=8-3&keywords=crisis+of+conscience http://www.amazon.com/CRISIS-OF-CONSCIENCE-Raymond-Edition/d...
- schoper 13y ago
  That critique is entirely accurate, unlike the article. I second the Crisis of Conscience recommendation.
pineapplejuice 13y ago
The Organisation as they call it is hierarchical. That's why you have elders, district overseers, governing body, etc. I've seen elders stepped down for not being perfect examples of fathers in their own families, or if one of their children are disassociated. People do get disassociated for challenging the order in the way of not following rules. They also regularly guilt trip their members for their idleness. Not having highlighted the answers in your Watchtower for example before the Sunday meeting must mean you don't do Bible study with your family like good parents. Pioneers (people who door knock full time) must complete so many hours of services per month.
- jjsz 13y ago
  I'm an ex-JW, I only lasted 1 year. If I had the same mentality that I have now back when I was 13- I would launch a service in highlighting people's answers. It would have been a hit for highschool kids and college kids who need to study. I won't be surprised if there is some type of underground website of kids sharing answers and what not.
gcb0 13y ago
The fact that you were in the cult and still defend that there were no "orders" or hierarchy makes me read the article with much more enthusiasm.
drsim 13y ago
I grew up a Witness too (left some time ago). I like the spirit of the article but the inaccuracies do undermine the credibility of their sources. Here's what they got wrong: "...talk about... New Light and the Ark of Salvation". New light is the term used in Watchtower publications whenever doctrine is changed. It's not something that would be discussed with potential converts (householders to use their parlance). Ark of Salvation I'd never heard used in the over 16 years while attending (it could of course be a new or older term). "...lead Witness would bring along a different assistant. ...according to accounts from people who have left the sect - it’s quite deliberate and it’s designed to get you hooked." This wasn't a tactic I'd seen used or was told to use for return visits (returning to an interested person's house) or bible studies (reading and answering questions with them from a Watchtower publication). It wasn't stipulated in the publications used to direct the ministry: Our Kingdom Ministry or Organised to Accomplish Our Ministry. "It is forbidden to wear gold rimmed glasses in the Jehovah’s Witnesses" Completely wrong. I knew several Elders (local leaders of the congregation) who did. "Anyone who questions an order is kicked out for ‘disfellowship’" I did question fundamental Witness doctrine (no blood transfusions, smoking, no birthdays) and I wasn't disciplined in any way. Just like questioning your bosses decisions at work it's at their whim how they take it: if you're disciplined or not. Disfellowshipping (shunning of congregation members) isn't rare and it does happen for questioning doctrine ('apostasy') but the extreme statement made is not correct. "every member has many basic duties... sell crafts" No. Jehovah's Witnesses don't do these typical church coffee morning/bingo type fundraising activities. They only accept donations from the public for publications and personally donate money as they wish. "cannot... drink" Wrong. Alcohol in the congregations I attended was treated in the same way the general public treat it.

by schoper 13y ago

jes 13y ago

With respect, I don't think the article gets every point wrong, but there may be some merit in what you have written. I did a bit of reading. First, if you search the web, you can find articles about wire-rimmed glasses being banned for some period of time in some Jehovah's Witness congregations. I didn't find anything about gold-rimmed glasses specifically: http://yucatan2012.com/Yucatan2012/MysticChristianity/E46336E5-B3D6-4652-AEF5-2E1CDD638676.html http://yucatan2012.com/Yucatan2012/MysticChristianity/E46336... There is also some information on "Theocratic War Strategy," for example, in this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_practices http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_practices From the article cited above, there is this quote attributed to the Watchtower Society: "It is proper to cover over our arrangements for the work that God commands us to do. ...."

protomyth 13y ago
I'm not sure I would link a source that is about "Christian and Mayan spirituality and our approach to health and fitness" that gets all its information from a site called towerwatch.com with the motto "Helping Christians Reach Jehovah's Witnesses with the Gospel of Our Savior Jesus Christ".

jacoblyles 13y ago

As an ex-Jehovah's Witness, I agree this article gets a lot of things wrong. But they also are a crazy cult. I suggest the book "Crisis of Conscience" from an ex-governing body member if you're interested in JW's seedy history[1]. They started as a numerology-obsessed doomsday cult and evolved from there - the last time JWs sold off their possessions in anticipation of the end of the world was 1974, but it wasn't the first time. Today things aren't quite as bad, but they're still bad: 1) I wasn't allowed to have non-Jehovah's Witness friends or participate in after-school activities 2) Higher education was discouraged (I understood that it had been prohibited in earlier years, but they liberalized with the times). The idea is that you should spend your life serving the lord and not seeking material gain. 3) Reading non-Jehovah's Witness books on religious topics is prohibited. Some of the Church Services ("meetings") consist of reading verbatim word-for-word material handed down from the central organization ("the society"). Sermons ("talks") are written by cobbling together recent material put out by the society. 4) They practice shunning of ex-members (JWs will not talk to an ex-JW. I have no friends from childhood that will speak to me) 5) They do require a huge time commitment - door-to-door ("field service") at least once a week and three meetings per week. 6) They believe all other religions are products of the devil, sent to deceive mankind. Theirs is the only correct one. [1] http://www.amazon.com/CRISIS-OF-CONSCIENCE-Raymond-Edition/dp/1484821262/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1371362888&sr=8-3&keywords=crisis+of+conscience http://www.amazon.com/CRISIS-OF-CONSCIENCE-Raymond-Edition/d...

schoper 13y ago
That critique is entirely accurate, unlike the article. I second the Crisis of Conscience recommendation.

pineapplejuice 13y ago

The Organisation as they call it is hierarchical. That's why you have elders, district overseers, governing body, etc. I've seen elders stepped down for not being perfect examples of fathers in their own families, or if one of their children are disassociated. People do get disassociated for challenging the order in the way of not following rules. They also regularly guilt trip their members for their idleness. Not having highlighted the answers in your Watchtower for example before the Sunday meeting must mean you don't do Bible study with your family like good parents. Pioneers (people who door knock full time) must complete so many hours of services per month.

jjsz 13y ago
I'm an ex-JW, I only lasted 1 year. If I had the same mentality that I have now back when I was 13- I would launch a service in highlighting people's answers. It would have been a hit for highschool kids and college kids who need to study. I won't be surprised if there is some type of underground website of kids sharing answers and what not.

gcb0 13y ago

The fact that you were in the cult and still defend that there were no "orders" or hierarchy makes me read the article with much more enthusiasm.

drsim 13y ago

I grew up a Witness too (left some time ago). I like the spirit of the article but the inaccuracies do undermine the credibility of their sources. Here's what they got wrong: "...talk about... New Light and the Ark of Salvation". New light is the term used in Watchtower publications whenever doctrine is changed. It's not something that would be discussed with potential converts (householders to use their parlance). Ark of Salvation I'd never heard used in the over 16 years while attending (it could of course be a new or older term). "...lead Witness would bring along a different assistant. ...according to accounts from people who have left the sect - it’s quite deliberate and it’s designed to get you hooked." This wasn't a tactic I'd seen used or was told to use for return visits (returning to an interested person's house) or bible studies (reading and answering questions with them from a Watchtower publication). It wasn't stipulated in the publications used to direct the ministry: Our Kingdom Ministry or Organised to Accomplish Our Ministry. "It is forbidden to wear gold rimmed glasses in the Jehovah’s Witnesses" Completely wrong. I knew several Elders (local leaders of the congregation) who did. "Anyone who questions an order is kicked out for ‘disfellowship’" I did question fundamental Witness doctrine (no blood transfusions, smoking, no birthdays) and I wasn't disciplined in any way. Just like questioning your bosses decisions at work it's at their whim how they take it: if you're disciplined or not. Disfellowshipping (shunning of congregation members) isn't rare and it does happen for questioning doctrine ('apostasy') but the extreme statement made is not correct. "every member has many basic duties... sell crafts" No. Jehovah's Witnesses don't do these typical church coffee morning/bingo type fundraising activities. They only accept donations from the public for publications and personally donate money as they wish. "cannot... drink" Wrong. Alcohol in the congregations I attended was treated in the same way the general public treat it.