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>Assertions in the press that our compliance with these requests gives the U.S. government unfettered access to our users’ data are simply untrue. However, gove

>Assertions in the press that our compliance with these requests gives the U.S. government unfettered access to our users’ data are simply untrue. However, government nondisclosure obligations regarding the number of FISA national security requests that Google receives, as well as the number of accounts covered by those requests, fuel that speculation. Sounds suspiciously like they are going to ruin everyone's nerd rage.

jlgreco 13y ago
You really love that phrase, don't you? I'm sure in other communities it is a great way to marginalize those with interests that you do not share.
- youngerdryas 13y ago
  I really doubt Google is going to play chicken about something so serious as giving away all their user data. Is it incomprehensible to you that they are telling the truth?
  - anon1385 13y ago
    The problem Google has is that a huge number of their users -- those in foreign countries -- have (finally) realised what has been public knowledge for years: they have no legal protection at all from the US government examining data Google holds about them and that Google readily comply with such requests and aren't really in a position to do much else. 'Telling the truth' involves restating this truth in the full glare of worldwide publicity. The more they try to reassure americans that everything they did was 'legal'[1] and only targeted foreigners, the more foreigners they alienate. So from a PR perspective I don't see how Google can fix this unless US law substantially changes (or they employ crypto on the users side but that undermines the economics of much of their business). [1] I'm not convinced that it is legal under EU data protection law and Google does have a presence in the EU, but I'm no lawyer.
    - aniket_ray 13y ago
      >Telling the truth' involves restating this truth in the full glare of worldwide publicity. The more they try to reassure americans that everything they did was 'legal'[1] and only targeted foreigners, the more foreigners they alienate I'm sorry but where are you getting this from? Google has categorically stated that they do not share data without court approved mandates. There is no mass "targeting" that is going on, no matter what the nationality.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      > "employ crypto on the users side but that undermines the economics of much of their business" This is true, at least in Google's situation. However I think there is an untapped market of people that want to be advertised to, provided the advertising is relevant. Surprisingly I think traditional print magazines actually have this figured out. The advertisements for designer clothing, watches, and booze get a lot of readership in "gentleman/bachelor/whatever" magazines (not sure what the correct term there is, not trying to refer to porn (well, except Playboy)) and I suspect that removing them would actually damage their subscription rates. Now, these adverts obviously are not targeted to the individual, but I think they nevertheless demonstrate the concept.
- tptacek 13y ago
  You're suggesting that the idea of Google as a tool for the NSA is a marginal interest on HN?
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    No, I am talking about much less specific interests, as his use of the phrase is similarly broad. Nor does his attempt to marginalize an interest imply that the interest is marginalized on HN. It concerns me that you are so eager to misread others' comments, and defend comments that contain no substance, only name-calling.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      What does it mean that it "concerns you"?
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        What kind of comment is that? What do you think it means? I'll give you a hint and tell you one of the things it doesn't mean. It doesn't mean "surprises me".
- haberman 13y ago
  It's one thing to care about privacy issues, it's another to believe (and react to, and soapbox about) a distorted and inaccurate version of reality. A lot of the "nerd rage" has involved people assuming facts that may not in fact be true. People who do this marginalize themselves. In general we call them "conspiracy theorists." For the facts that do indeed turn out to be true, soapbox away.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    As I have seen it used, "nerd rage" is really just a way of saying "if you care about this, you are a nerd", which is implicitly wrong. If the intent is to call into question the accuracy of statements, then there are better ways to do that.

jlgreco 13y ago

You really love that phrase, don't you? I'm sure in other communities it is a great way to marginalize those with interests that you do not share.

youngerdryas 13y ago
I really doubt Google is going to play chicken about something so serious as giving away all their user data. Is it incomprehensible to you that they are telling the truth?
- anon1385 13y ago
  The problem Google has is that a huge number of their users -- those in foreign countries -- have (finally) realised what has been public knowledge for years: they have no legal protection at all from the US government examining data Google holds about them and that Google readily comply with such requests and aren't really in a position to do much else. 'Telling the truth' involves restating this truth in the full glare of worldwide publicity. The more they try to reassure americans that everything they did was 'legal'[1] and only targeted foreigners, the more foreigners they alienate. So from a PR perspective I don't see how Google can fix this unless US law substantially changes (or they employ crypto on the users side but that undermines the economics of much of their business). [1] I'm not convinced that it is legal under EU data protection law and Google does have a presence in the EU, but I'm no lawyer.
  - aniket_ray 13y ago
    >Telling the truth' involves restating this truth in the full glare of worldwide publicity. The more they try to reassure americans that everything they did was 'legal'[1] and only targeted foreigners, the more foreigners they alienate I'm sorry but where are you getting this from? Google has categorically stated that they do not share data without court approved mandates. There is no mass "targeting" that is going on, no matter what the nationality.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    > "employ crypto on the users side but that undermines the economics of much of their business" This is true, at least in Google's situation. However I think there is an untapped market of people that want to be advertised to, provided the advertising is relevant. Surprisingly I think traditional print magazines actually have this figured out. The advertisements for designer clothing, watches, and booze get a lot of readership in "gentleman/bachelor/whatever" magazines (not sure what the correct term there is, not trying to refer to porn (well, except Playboy)) and I suspect that removing them would actually damage their subscription rates. Now, these adverts obviously are not targeted to the individual, but I think they nevertheless demonstrate the concept.
tptacek 13y ago
You're suggesting that the idea of Google as a tool for the NSA is a marginal interest on HN?
- jlgreco 13y ago
  No, I am talking about much less specific interests, as his use of the phrase is similarly broad. Nor does his attempt to marginalize an interest imply that the interest is marginalized on HN. It concerns me that you are so eager to misread others' comments, and defend comments that contain no substance, only name-calling.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    What does it mean that it "concerns you"?
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      What kind of comment is that? What do you think it means? I'll give you a hint and tell you one of the things it doesn't mean. It doesn't mean "surprises me".
haberman 13y ago
It's one thing to care about privacy issues, it's another to believe (and react to, and soapbox about) a distorted and inaccurate version of reality. A lot of the "nerd rage" has involved people assuming facts that may not in fact be true. People who do this marginalize themselves. In general we call them "conspiracy theorists." For the facts that do indeed turn out to be true, soapbox away.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  As I have seen it used, "nerd rage" is really just a way of saying "if you care about this, you are a nerd", which is implicitly wrong. If the intent is to call into question the accuracy of statements, then there are better ways to do that.