13 ms·

I'm curious if my friends, family, and co-workers that rolled their eyes at me or laughed at me when I explained why I deleted my facebook account years ago eve

by tshile 13y ago

I'm curious if my friends, family, and co-workers that rolled their eyes at me or laughed at me when I explained why I deleted my facebook account years ago even remember the conversation, or what their response was, when they read the latest revelations about the government having access to their databases.

k-mcgrady 13y ago
Deleting your Facebook account isn't a solution to this problem. Gmail may contain even more personal information. Dropbox contains your files and is essentially giving them access to documents you would have stored offline 10 years ago. The problem is that none of these services are safe anymore and we need specific legislation detailing what the government can and can't do with the information we have stored on them. The bigger problem for me is that as my data is being stored in the US by US companies and my countries laws don't apply - and the safeguards provided by the US constitution also don't apply. The NSA/FBI can do whatever they want with my data and have said as much[1]: "He said reports about Prism contained "numerous inaccuracies". While admitting the government collected communications from internet firms, he said the policy only targets "non-US persons"." I think we might start to see companies having data centres in multiple countries and allowing you to store your data in the one you choose or the one that follows your countries laws. Otherwise there will be an exodus of users from US internet companies. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22809541 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22809541
- grandalf 13y ago
  The best approach is to keep profiles/accounts on all of those services and use them periodically to create a "clean" trail. Meanwhile, if you need any actual privacy, find alternate/private channels. Considering the enormous amount of data being collected and the relative ease of setting up a clean trail, this kind of spying makes it even easier for low/moderate-suspicion individuals to achieve secure communications. For high suspicion individuals, this kind of surveillance makes it easy to create disinformation that appears to be real intel. The workflow required to leave a realistic "clean" trail while simultaneously engaging in secure communication could be designed into a purpose-built linux distro.
  - jedbrown 13y ago
    purpose-built linux distro That seems to be the intent of Tails [1]; see also [2]. [1] https://tails.boum.org https://tails.boum.org [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5838140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5838140
- tshile 13y ago
  I didn't mean to imply that it was a solution to the problem. Just pointing out the problem seen long before today by many - for most of us here, this issue is not new. It's been discussed and debated for years. There's just now concrete proof that is irrefutable. I'm more excited about these recent revelations than shocked and appalled, because now it is finally a national conversation with real outrage behind it. I've been waiting for this for years. Being called crazy, paranoid, anti-American, etc for years for voicing concerns about this has led me to a position of vindication on some level; however small or petty that may be.
- muyuu 13y ago
  Deleting FB alone might not be a solution, but it's a part of it. Out of these, I only have a gmail account. No personal data in it is real. I never email anyone I know in person from that account, nor I give it to anybody who knows me. I think I'm on the safe side. I operate similarly with my phone and basically everything else.
  - ISL 13y ago
    Are your emails encrypted? If not, anyone in the pipeline can read them.
    - muyuu 13y ago
      I don't use email for anything private or important really. But yeah, I do encrypt with GPG anything moderately private I send.
- deanclatworthy 13y ago
  The internet provides us with a mechanism of connecting with other people. The only advantage these internet services offer us is data redundancy, and the convenience of having an application accessible from wherever we are. - In the case of a social network, have it decentralised and have user profiles and information hosted on the user's computer, and only accessible when logged into the social network and only by those that you have granted permission for. - Messaging could be directly between users, over an encrypted channel. If user A sends a message to user B it does not arrive until they connect their device to the internet. Only then does the secure exchange of a message occur. Group messaging is a more difficult problem. - Cloud storage: if storage devices get bigger, smaller and cheaper there's no reason why it couldn't become normal for people to have physical backup solutions built into their devices. Alternatively, completely encrypted cloud storage where only the user has the keys could become the norm. The problem lies in consumer acceptance, education and also convenience. If nobody understands the technologies they use to power their lives, it's hard to communicate why things should be done alternatively. The EFF does a fantastic job of trying to protect our rights when it comes to technology, but I don't think consumers get it. More needs to be done. The analogy of a man coming into your house and reading your mail that's been posted through your door springs to mind. And finally, it has to be easy to do all these things in a private way. Better tools need to be created to allow us to securely store our information, communicate and perform tasks.
skore 13y ago
Going back even further, there used to be a time when "Internet Citizens" were primarily weird geeks. Us weird geeks used to tell people "eventually, this will be everywhere, connecting everything and everyone" and in exchange, we received ridicule by "ordinary" people. Those weird geeks and their technology - They would sure like if everybody was on their tech mumbo jumbo thing. Fast forward ten years and an increasing number of people vomit their entire life online, constantly. First it was the iMac era, then the iPhone era, now the iPad era. With every era, a new demographic is being pushed into this new data reality and our calls from the beginnings go unheard. The thing is - we would really like to say "told you so", but it seems overly cynical by now. Especially considering that it's not just our wildest dreams, but also our worst nightmares coming true at an exponential pace. And even more than that - we really like people getting onto "our thing", so calling for caution now has a whiff of asking for exclusivity after our nice little in-crowd thing was blown out of proportion.
lotsofcows 13y ago
No. They didn't care then and they don't care now. The government can data mine my facebook page as much as they want - it's my library lending record I'm worried about...
Nursie 13y ago
Facebook is where inconsequential nonsense goes. I guess I should be more concerned with gmail...

by tshile 13y ago

k-mcgrady 13y ago

Deleting your Facebook account isn't a solution to this problem. Gmail may contain even more personal information. Dropbox contains your files and is essentially giving them access to documents you would have stored offline 10 years ago. The problem is that none of these services are safe anymore and we need specific legislation detailing what the government can and can't do with the information we have stored on them. The bigger problem for me is that as my data is being stored in the US by US companies and my countries laws don't apply - and the safeguards provided by the US constitution also don't apply. The NSA/FBI can do whatever they want with my data and have said as much[1]: "He said reports about Prism contained "numerous inaccuracies". While admitting the government collected communications from internet firms, he said the policy only targets "non-US persons"." I think we might start to see companies having data centres in multiple countries and allowing you to store your data in the one you choose or the one that follows your countries laws. Otherwise there will be an exodus of users from US internet companies. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22809541 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22809541

grandalf 13y ago
The best approach is to keep profiles/accounts on all of those services and use them periodically to create a "clean" trail. Meanwhile, if you need any actual privacy, find alternate/private channels. Considering the enormous amount of data being collected and the relative ease of setting up a clean trail, this kind of spying makes it even easier for low/moderate-suspicion individuals to achieve secure communications. For high suspicion individuals, this kind of surveillance makes it easy to create disinformation that appears to be real intel. The workflow required to leave a realistic "clean" trail while simultaneously engaging in secure communication could be designed into a purpose-built linux distro.
- jedbrown 13y ago
  purpose-built linux distro That seems to be the intent of Tails [1]; see also [2]. [1] https://tails.boum.org https://tails.boum.org [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5838140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5838140
tshile 13y ago
I didn't mean to imply that it was a solution to the problem. Just pointing out the problem seen long before today by many - for most of us here, this issue is not new. It's been discussed and debated for years. There's just now concrete proof that is irrefutable. I'm more excited about these recent revelations than shocked and appalled, because now it is finally a national conversation with real outrage behind it. I've been waiting for this for years. Being called crazy, paranoid, anti-American, etc for years for voicing concerns about this has led me to a position of vindication on some level; however small or petty that may be.
muyuu 13y ago
Deleting FB alone might not be a solution, but it's a part of it. Out of these, I only have a gmail account. No personal data in it is real. I never email anyone I know in person from that account, nor I give it to anybody who knows me. I think I'm on the safe side. I operate similarly with my phone and basically everything else.
- ISL 13y ago
  Are your emails encrypted? If not, anyone in the pipeline can read them.
  - muyuu 13y ago
    I don't use email for anything private or important really. But yeah, I do encrypt with GPG anything moderately private I send.
deanclatworthy 13y ago
The internet provides us with a mechanism of connecting with other people. The only advantage these internet services offer us is data redundancy, and the convenience of having an application accessible from wherever we are. - In the case of a social network, have it decentralised and have user profiles and information hosted on the user's computer, and only accessible when logged into the social network and only by those that you have granted permission for. - Messaging could be directly between users, over an encrypted channel. If user A sends a message to user B it does not arrive until they connect their device to the internet. Only then does the secure exchange of a message occur. Group messaging is a more difficult problem. - Cloud storage: if storage devices get bigger, smaller and cheaper there's no reason why it couldn't become normal for people to have physical backup solutions built into their devices. Alternatively, completely encrypted cloud storage where only the user has the keys could become the norm. The problem lies in consumer acceptance, education and also convenience. If nobody understands the technologies they use to power their lives, it's hard to communicate why things should be done alternatively. The EFF does a fantastic job of trying to protect our rights when it comes to technology, but I don't think consumers get it. More needs to be done. The analogy of a man coming into your house and reading your mail that's been posted through your door springs to mind. And finally, it has to be easy to do all these things in a private way. Better tools need to be created to allow us to securely store our information, communicate and perform tasks.

skore 13y ago

Going back even further, there used to be a time when "Internet Citizens" were primarily weird geeks. Us weird geeks used to tell people "eventually, this will be everywhere, connecting everything and everyone" and in exchange, we received ridicule by "ordinary" people. Those weird geeks and their technology - They would sure like if everybody was on their tech mumbo jumbo thing. Fast forward ten years and an increasing number of people vomit their entire life online, constantly. First it was the iMac era, then the iPhone era, now the iPad era. With every era, a new demographic is being pushed into this new data reality and our calls from the beginnings go unheard. The thing is - we would really like to say "told you so", but it seems overly cynical by now. Especially considering that it's not just our wildest dreams, but also our worst nightmares coming true at an exponential pace. And even more than that - we really like people getting onto "our thing", so calling for caution now has a whiff of asking for exclusivity after our nice little in-crowd thing was blown out of proportion.

lotsofcows 13y ago

No. They didn't care then and they don't care now. The government can data mine my facebook page as much as they want - it's my library lending record I'm worried about...

Nursie 13y ago

Facebook is where inconsequential nonsense goes. I guess I should be more concerned with gmail...