5 ms·

Luxury or Necessity? The Public Makes a U-Turn

24 points by crocus 17y ago

frossie 17y ago
Given how correlated these trends are, I am not sure what is changing is the desire for any particular item, but the actual interpretation of the word "necessity". I suspect what is happening is that when financial security is low, necessity is applied as a term close to its actual definition, whereas in times of financial plenty it starts wandering up the scale towards "want". That said, I boggle at the clothes dryer rank.
- asciilifeform 17y ago
  > I boggle at the clothes dryer rank Some American towns actually forbid residents from hanging clotheslines.
  - ams6110 17y ago
    True, but it's usually a neighborhood association rule, not something that applies to a whole town.
  - lucumo 17y ago
    But you can hang them inside. We don't have a clothes dryer and the weather here is generally wetter than the clothes are. We just have two drying racks. Works perfectly for a two-person house hold. I don't think it's hard to scale up for more persons.
tdavis 17y ago
The fact that 50% of people still believe things like a TV, Microwave, and central A/C are "necessities" means we have a very long way to go. I guess I can be happy it dropped from 60%.
- schwanksta 17y ago
  Have you ever lived in the south? A/C is very much a necessity.
  - Femur 17y ago
    Yet people did it. My parents grew up in St. Louis without air conditioning. It gets uncomfortable but is not unlivable. People live in the tropics without it. It is not a necessity.
    - nihilocrat 17y ago
      I'm really confused how people got along before A/C. If the A/C is broken or otherwise off, your windows are down and fans are running everywhere, and you are completely naked, it still feels like you are sitting inside a very hot wet oven. I can hardly do anything but think of ways to get away from the heat (cold shower, going into the shade outside, going someplace with A/C) and falling asleep usually takes about four more hours than it should as I wallow around like a pig. Every 6-month 100-degree summer reminds me why I need to move out of the South.
      - Femur 17y ago
        I asked my dad the same thing and here was his trick to fall asleep at night: He had a ceiling fan but no AC. So he would wrap himself in a blanket until he was soaked with sweat. Then he took the blanket off and laid on his sheet and let the fan blow on him thereby evaporating the sweat. This would cool him down and allow him to sleep.
    - asciilifeform 17y ago
      > Yet people did it. My parents grew up in St. Louis without air conditioning. In the past, people were allowed to sweat (and smell of sweat.)
  - tdavis 17y ago
    There is a difference between "home air conditioning", i.e. central air, and independent A/C units. I live in Boston and would be insane to go the summer without A/C, but a few portable units strategically placed work fine. Even still, there are countries far hotter than the United States which do not generally (or never) have A/C and they seem to survive just fine. Perhaps the definition of "necessity" is the argument here, but in a strict-leaning sense, A/C is hardly a necessity. None of the things on that list are, really.
- ibsulon 17y ago
  Please live in Tucson in July. :) I would give up Internet before I gave up A/C. I've only seen one home in Tucson well enough insulated to give up A/C, and it was built, brick by brick by the owners, and only had two very small windows.
  - davidw 17y ago
    Maybe construction techniques appropriate to local conditions are more of a necessity than AC? There are plenty of places where people have survived in similar conditions for hundreds if not thousands of years prior to AC.
    - harpastum 17y ago
      Of the many ways that people handled heat before AC [1], most involved thicker walls and living underground. Air Conditioning has allowed the use of modern building materials (drywall & studs, rather than poured concrete or bricks), and therefore greatly accelerated the growth of home ownership. As with everything, there are pros and cons--cheap electricity has simply led to the use of AC rather than natural cooling. [1]http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/7424 http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/7424
krschultz 17y ago
What about the internet? I don't have a TV but I wouldn't give up the internet because my work depends on it - but for others it would be a luxury.
- access_denied 17y ago
  In your case internet connection is not household item but office equipment.
Femur 17y ago
Slightly off topic, but related none-the-less: something that has always bothered me about "necessities" is that 99% of US households have a TV [1] but at the same time, ~12% are in poverty. [2] How do "necessities" like this tie into poverty? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_United_States [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States
- Xichekolas 17y ago
  In America, you are poor if you only have one TV. (The statistic you point out has bothered me for a long time, but it's hard to control people's spending priorities, and it's not like these people are buying new flatscreens with welfare checks. You can drive around any college town during May or August and pick up a working TV for free off the curb.)
  - Femur 17y ago
    >it's not like these people are buying new flatscreens with welfare checks this is a very good point. I wonder if there is data around that examines how welfare checks are spent.
    - krschultz 17y ago
      What do you mean by "welfare". Food stamps are accepted at certain locations for certain items. Unemployment insurance is a general check - but that isn't exactly welfare.
      - Femur 17y ago
        I meant welfare to mean cash payments to the poor as provided for in the Welfare Reform act of 1996. [1] You brought up a good point to differentiate this from food stamps and unemployment. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_Reform_Act_of_1996 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_Reform_Act_of_1996
- 17y ago
Xichekolas 17y ago
I'm rather blown away that 49% of 18-29 year-olds consider a land line phone to be a necessity. I think the last time I had a land line was a decade ago, when I was 17. And I live in the decidedly non-cutting-edge midwest. Even my parents haven't had a land line in years.
- randrews 17y ago
  When I was laid off a little over a month ago, I was looking for things to get rid of. Even though I have a cellphone, I kept the landline: I knew I was going to be doing a lot of interviews over the phone, and I knew that my cellphone drops a lot of calls and generally sounds crappy inside the house.
kiba 17y ago
The average middle class citizen have access to luxuries unheard of even for kings and queen ages ago. What is luxury very often become the masses' necessity through free maket process.

24 points by crocus 17y ago

Given how correlated these trends are, I am not sure what is changing is the desire for any particular item, but the actual interpretation of the word "necessity". I suspect what is happening is that when financial security is low, necessity is applied as a term close to its actual definition, whereas in times of financial plenty it starts wandering up the scale towards "want". That said, I boggle at the clothes dryer rank.

asciilifeform 17y ago
> I boggle at the clothes dryer rank Some American towns actually forbid residents from hanging clotheslines.
- ams6110 17y ago
  True, but it's usually a neighborhood association rule, not something that applies to a whole town.
- lucumo 17y ago
  But you can hang them inside. We don't have a clothes dryer and the weather here is generally wetter than the clothes are. We just have two drying racks. Works perfectly for a two-person house hold. I don't think it's hard to scale up for more persons.

tdavis 17y ago

The fact that 50% of people still believe things like a TV, Microwave, and central A/C are "necessities" means we have a very long way to go. I guess I can be happy it dropped from 60%.

schwanksta 17y ago
Have you ever lived in the south? A/C is very much a necessity.
- Femur 17y ago
  Yet people did it. My parents grew up in St. Louis without air conditioning. It gets uncomfortable but is not unlivable. People live in the tropics without it. It is not a necessity.
  - nihilocrat 17y ago
    I'm really confused how people got along before A/C. If the A/C is broken or otherwise off, your windows are down and fans are running everywhere, and you are completely naked, it still feels like you are sitting inside a very hot wet oven. I can hardly do anything but think of ways to get away from the heat (cold shower, going into the shade outside, going someplace with A/C) and falling asleep usually takes about four more hours than it should as I wallow around like a pig. Every 6-month 100-degree summer reminds me why I need to move out of the South.
    - Femur 17y ago
      I asked my dad the same thing and here was his trick to fall asleep at night: He had a ceiling fan but no AC. So he would wrap himself in a blanket until he was soaked with sweat. Then he took the blanket off and laid on his sheet and let the fan blow on him thereby evaporating the sweat. This would cool him down and allow him to sleep.
  - asciilifeform 17y ago
    > Yet people did it. My parents grew up in St. Louis without air conditioning. In the past, people were allowed to sweat (and smell of sweat.)
- tdavis 17y ago
  There is a difference between "home air conditioning", i.e. central air, and independent A/C units. I live in Boston and would be insane to go the summer without A/C, but a few portable units strategically placed work fine. Even still, there are countries far hotter than the United States which do not generally (or never) have A/C and they seem to survive just fine. Perhaps the definition of "necessity" is the argument here, but in a strict-leaning sense, A/C is hardly a necessity. None of the things on that list are, really.
ibsulon 17y ago
Please live in Tucson in July. :) I would give up Internet before I gave up A/C. I've only seen one home in Tucson well enough insulated to give up A/C, and it was built, brick by brick by the owners, and only had two very small windows.
- davidw 17y ago
  Maybe construction techniques appropriate to local conditions are more of a necessity than AC? There are plenty of places where people have survived in similar conditions for hundreds if not thousands of years prior to AC.
  - harpastum 17y ago
    Of the many ways that people handled heat before AC [1], most involved thicker walls and living underground. Air Conditioning has allowed the use of modern building materials (drywall & studs, rather than poured concrete or bricks), and therefore greatly accelerated the growth of home ownership. As with everything, there are pros and cons--cheap electricity has simply led to the use of AC rather than natural cooling. [1]http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/7424 http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/7424

krschultz 17y ago

What about the internet? I don't have a TV but I wouldn't give up the internet because my work depends on it - but for others it would be a luxury.

access_denied 17y ago
In your case internet connection is not household item but office equipment.

Femur 17y ago

Slightly off topic, but related none-the-less: something that has always bothered me about "necessities" is that 99% of US households have a TV [1] but at the same time, ~12% are in poverty. [2] How do "necessities" like this tie into poverty? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_United_States [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

Xichekolas 17y ago
In America, you are poor if you only have one TV. (The statistic you point out has bothered me for a long time, but it's hard to control people's spending priorities, and it's not like these people are buying new flatscreens with welfare checks. You can drive around any college town during May or August and pick up a working TV for free off the curb.)
- Femur 17y ago
  >it's not like these people are buying new flatscreens with welfare checks this is a very good point. I wonder if there is data around that examines how welfare checks are spent.
  - krschultz 17y ago
    What do you mean by "welfare". Food stamps are accepted at certain locations for certain items. Unemployment insurance is a general check - but that isn't exactly welfare.
    - Femur 17y ago
      I meant welfare to mean cash payments to the poor as provided for in the Welfare Reform act of 1996. [1] You brought up a good point to differentiate this from food stamps and unemployment. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_Reform_Act_of_1996 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_Reform_Act_of_1996
17y ago

Xichekolas 17y ago

I'm rather blown away that 49% of 18-29 year-olds consider a land line phone to be a necessity. I think the last time I had a land line was a decade ago, when I was 17. And I live in the decidedly non-cutting-edge midwest. Even my parents haven't had a land line in years.

randrews 17y ago
When I was laid off a little over a month ago, I was looking for things to get rid of. Even though I have a cellphone, I kept the landline: I knew I was going to be doing a lot of interviews over the phone, and I knew that my cellphone drops a lot of calls and generally sounds crappy inside the house.

kiba 17y ago

The average middle class citizen have access to luxuries unheard of even for kings and queen ages ago. What is luxury very often become the masses' necessity through free maket process.