5 ms·

This is so incredibly wrong in so many ways. Many developers were seduced into social games because people loved them and it seemed like a new frontier and a ne

by sjsivak 13y ago

This is so incredibly wrong in so many ways. Many developers were seduced into social games because people loved them and it seemed like a new frontier and a new market with shorter development cycles and interesting challenges. It is easy to have great hindsight but a few years ago the game industry looked very different. Zynga has had a few games be reviewed quite well, but nobody ever seems to remember them.[1][2] As a former Zynga employee that came in through acquisition, I find it repulsive that people assume we are all responsible for the poor decisions of a few at the top. Most of us worked our asses off to try to make something awesome, but ended up having to compromise in the worst possible ways to satisfy the top brass or poorly understood metrics. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/31/zynga-channels-settlers-of-catan-in-new-social-combat-game-empires-allies-debuts-in-12-languages/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/31/zynga-channels-settlers-of-... [2] http://kotaku.com/5836588/adventure-world-is-zyngas-take-on-tomb-raider++and-another-step-toward-real-games http://kotaku.com/5836588/adventure-world-is-zyngas-take-on-...

shadowmint 13y ago
It's easy to say 'Oh sure, I work for the Evil Empire, but my division makes interesting things which people actually quite like...' ...but then you've got to be prepared to take it on the chin when someone says, "Yes, but that whole company is Evil, which, kind of by association includes you." When you work for someone, their reputation does, absolutely, 100% reflect on you personally regardless of what your role in the company is (to some degree, obviously). Just food for thought. If you don't like it, don't work for people you don't want your personal reputation associated with.
- jmduke 13y ago
  When you work for someone, their reputation does, absolutely, 100% reflect on you personally regardless of what your role in the company is (to some degree, obviously). I don't understand this rationale at all. You are not your company. Calling someone evil because you dislike their company (I'm not defending Zynga, but they're the #firstworldproblems of "evil") is incredibly sophomoric.
  - shadowmint 13y ago
    Perhaps. ...but I think you're fooling yourself if you think this doesn't happen in the real world.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    You've basically got a very mild variation on the Wernher Von Braun thing going on here. Engineer of prolific impact and talent, working for the worst possible people, indirectly exploiting people in the worse possible way to do shit work that is related to his pure and commendable goals and interests. The engineer feels as though he is powerless to resist the the exploitation that is demanded by his employer. Eventually the bad guy employers go down in flames to everyone's delight, but the engineer still has the technical chops to make himself valued. The question, does the previous employer reflect poorly on the engineer? To be honest, Von Braun is one of those ambiguous figures in history for me. I don't really know how I feel about him. However, the fact that he is ambiguous at all means that I have to admit to myself that his affiliations during the war do tarnish what I think of him. I don't think it is possible for that not to be the case. Ex-Zynga software engineer? Obviously the ambiguity is not going to be "is this guy a war criminal or not?" But would there be any ambiguity of any sort? Yeah, I think for me there would be. I don't think an engineer of any caliber is evaluated in a vacuum, past employers shape how we view them, for better or worse. This (particularly how I feel about Von Braun) is something I have thought about hard in the past when considering what I want to do as an engineer.
    - ryguytilidie 13y ago
      I know Mark Pincus is a pretty big dick, but "worst possible people"? Come on.
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        > very mild variation In case your browser isn't showing it (android chrome?), there is some italicized emphasis there.
  - sergiosgc 13y ago
- smutticus 13y ago
  There's something so particularly American about gaining so much of your identity from your job. American's are so defined by what work they do. I am not my employer. My employer pays my wage and that's it. I'm not interested in joining a cult. I'm earning a paycheck. This is not to say I would feel comfortable working for a company like Zynga. Absolutely not. But I also don't doubt there are many people at Zynga who really do not like the company's direction. Don't blame the soldiers for the fault of the generals.
  - sidcool 13y ago
    That's so true. In the Eastern philosophy, your work is one part of you, may be a big one, but just a part of you. Your inner being, inner peace is of greater importance. Your friends, family and love matters.
    - EvilLook 13y ago
      As we can see in Japan because no true Japanese person lets their work take away from their family life. We can also see this in Foxconn assembly lines, the home of the work/life balance in China.
  - fakeer 13y ago
    Judge: Did you shoot the peasants? Soldier: Yes I did, but I was following orders. Judge: But, you could have avoided shooting the peasant, right? But you didn't. Soldier: Yes I could, but I was following orders.
  - dlitz 13y ago
    It's not about your employer being your identity; It's about empathy and whether your choices improve or worsen others' lives. > Don't blame the soldiers for the fault of the generals. Since you apparently like military analogies, I'll quote one of the Nuremberg Principles, which---as far as I am aware---are not an American invention: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him." This is a pretty sensible principle, because it's the soldiers who enable the generals. Similarly, if you're a developer (unless you're really terrible) and you work at Zynga or any other company, you're enabling your employer.
rhizome 13y ago
Those compromises helped this story get written: http://www.sfgate.com/news/slideshow/Mark-Pincus-039-16M-Pacific-Heights-home-62856.php http://www.sfgate.com/news/slideshow/Mark-Pincus-039-16M-Pac...
dinkumthinkum 13y ago
I hear what you are saying but it is NOT simply hindsight. Many of us from the beginning were very critical of sort of games developed by Zynga, it is definitely not a case of looking back. This is not to say that all the developers were there to rip off previous games and create digital crack but Zynga is what it is and we did say it from the beginning.

by sjsivak 13y ago

shadowmint 13y ago

It's easy to say 'Oh sure, I work for the Evil Empire, but my division makes interesting things which people actually quite like...' ...but then you've got to be prepared to take it on the chin when someone says, "Yes, but that whole company is Evil, which, kind of by association includes you." When you work for someone, their reputation does, absolutely, 100% reflect on you personally regardless of what your role in the company is (to some degree, obviously). Just food for thought. If you don't like it, don't work for people you don't want your personal reputation associated with.

jmduke 13y ago
When you work for someone, their reputation does, absolutely, 100% reflect on you personally regardless of what your role in the company is (to some degree, obviously). I don't understand this rationale at all. You are not your company. Calling someone evil because you dislike their company (I'm not defending Zynga, but they're the #firstworldproblems of "evil") is incredibly sophomoric.
- shadowmint 13y ago
  Perhaps. ...but I think you're fooling yourself if you think this doesn't happen in the real world.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  You've basically got a very mild variation on the Wernher Von Braun thing going on here. Engineer of prolific impact and talent, working for the worst possible people, indirectly exploiting people in the worse possible way to do shit work that is related to his pure and commendable goals and interests. The engineer feels as though he is powerless to resist the the exploitation that is demanded by his employer. Eventually the bad guy employers go down in flames to everyone's delight, but the engineer still has the technical chops to make himself valued. The question, does the previous employer reflect poorly on the engineer? To be honest, Von Braun is one of those ambiguous figures in history for me. I don't really know how I feel about him. However, the fact that he is ambiguous at all means that I have to admit to myself that his affiliations during the war do tarnish what I think of him. I don't think it is possible for that not to be the case. Ex-Zynga software engineer? Obviously the ambiguity is not going to be "is this guy a war criminal or not?" But would there be any ambiguity of any sort? Yeah, I think for me there would be. I don't think an engineer of any caliber is evaluated in a vacuum, past employers shape how we view them, for better or worse. This (particularly how I feel about Von Braun) is something I have thought about hard in the past when considering what I want to do as an engineer.
  - ryguytilidie 13y ago
    I know Mark Pincus is a pretty big dick, but "worst possible people"? Come on.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      > very mild variation In case your browser isn't showing it (android chrome?), there is some italicized emphasis there.
- sergiosgc 13y ago
smutticus 13y ago
There's something so particularly American about gaining so much of your identity from your job. American's are so defined by what work they do. I am not my employer. My employer pays my wage and that's it. I'm not interested in joining a cult. I'm earning a paycheck. This is not to say I would feel comfortable working for a company like Zynga. Absolutely not. But I also don't doubt there are many people at Zynga who really do not like the company's direction. Don't blame the soldiers for the fault of the generals.
- sidcool 13y ago
  That's so true. In the Eastern philosophy, your work is one part of you, may be a big one, but just a part of you. Your inner being, inner peace is of greater importance. Your friends, family and love matters.
  - EvilLook 13y ago
    As we can see in Japan because no true Japanese person lets their work take away from their family life. We can also see this in Foxconn assembly lines, the home of the work/life balance in China.
- fakeer 13y ago
  Judge: Did you shoot the peasants? Soldier: Yes I did, but I was following orders. Judge: But, you could have avoided shooting the peasant, right? But you didn't. Soldier: Yes I could, but I was following orders.
- dlitz 13y ago
  It's not about your employer being your identity; It's about empathy and whether your choices improve or worsen others' lives. > Don't blame the soldiers for the fault of the generals. Since you apparently like military analogies, I'll quote one of the Nuremberg Principles, which---as far as I am aware---are not an American invention: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him." This is a pretty sensible principle, because it's the soldiers who enable the generals. Similarly, if you're a developer (unless you're really terrible) and you work at Zynga or any other company, you're enabling your employer.

rhizome 13y ago

Those compromises helped this story get written: http://www.sfgate.com/news/slideshow/Mark-Pincus-039-16M-Pacific-Heights-home-62856.php http://www.sfgate.com/news/slideshow/Mark-Pincus-039-16M-Pac...

dinkumthinkum 13y ago

I hear what you are saying but it is NOT simply hindsight. Many of us from the beginning were very critical of sort of games developed by Zynga, it is definitely not a case of looking back. This is not to say that all the developers were there to rip off previous games and create digital crack but Zynga is what it is and we did say it from the beginning.