19 ms·

Heh, I thought that was your job. If you actually are interested, see this post and all of the comments: http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-

by flootch 13y ago

Heh, I thought that was your job. If you actually are interested, see this post and all of the comments: http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-helps-female-programmers-cower-in-fear/ http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-helps-... I admit I don't understand the downvotes. danilocampus invited me to a comment war, I graciously declined with a bit of humor.

danilocampos 13y ago
So, Github unveiled a diversity initiative. Which would appear to be their prerogative... Can you help me connect the dots between that and people making victims out of themselves?
- flootch 13y ago
  See http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-helps-female-programmers-cower-in-fear/#comment-878837582 http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-helps-... Women aren't frail damsels that need your condescending efforts, or need your overly protective assumptions that are mainly patriarchy disguised as a cape to help them cross a puddle that you can manage. The key to more women in tech is outreach and education, not patronization and tales that they are frail, and need protection and special treatment. You can have the last word, but next time, try reading the link I share with you.
  - danilocampos 13y ago
    > Women aren't frail damsels that need your condescending efforts, or need your overly protective assumptions... On its own, that does indeed seem reasonable, even if dubiously relevant. But where does the "self-victimization" come in? This remains my chief curiosity and you've yet to address it beyond general hand-waving in the direction of a very lengthy block of text. If you might kindly boil your position on "self-victimization" into a sentence or two, I would be most appreciative. I am challenged to square it with your other remarks, but I'm certain I'm just missing something.
  - mnicole 13y ago
    No one's saying women need to be coddled; the problem is that people recognize that the current state of the industry/the internet are jerks. You can only tell people to ignore bullying so long, especially when those doing the bullying aren't being punished, but those that are being victimized by it are being told to instead change this perceived weakness about themselves. People should not have to worry about being made fun of while they're trying to learn something difficult. Recently we had that female Mozilla employee whose code (for a personal project, no less) was made fun of by three semi-prominent developers on Twitter. The consensus on HN was that there was nothing wrong with her code, but that she was being picked on solely for being a girl. In bringing the issue up, two of the three apologized, with the third going the route of "It isn't my fault you are offended,". That is why it is important to foster good relationships, positivity and trust early-on. It has nothing to do with treating anyone like a princess and everything to do with the truth of how people treat women online (and off) and allowing these girls to find mentors and people that inspire them that they can better relate to. The commenter you linked to doesn't realize that within that repo, there's a Team of everyone that signed up for this, allowing them to start projects and teach amongst themselves. That is the end-game here; allow people to learn without concern. No one seemed to have a problem with the concept of private repos before this and the Ada Initiative's private repo was highly successful; I wonder why.
    - flootch 13y ago
      Recently we had that female Mozilla employee whose code (for a personal project, no less) was made fun of by three semi-prominent developers on Twitter. The consensus on HN was that there was nothing wrong with her code, but that she was being picked on solely for being a girl. I think that was your consensus, but here is the thread, my very brief rescan of that doesn't indicate to me that her being a woman was the issue, the consensus seems to be that twitter makes it trivial to be an asshole, and many people are happy to jump in. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5106767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5106767 In general I see lots of assertion that men in tech treat women terribly, but not much evidence. The evidence that is there usually points to events that took place before employment. In this case, our 17 year old heroine clearly faced no jerks in tech, though it is likely she faced jerks in high school. And it's not at all clear to me that any abuse she has suffered as female nerd in high school is any worse than the abuse male nerds face.

by flootch 13y ago

danilocampos 13y ago

So, Github unveiled a diversity initiative. Which would appear to be their prerogative... Can you help me connect the dots between that and people making victims out of themselves?

flootch 13y ago
See http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-helps-female-programmers-cower-in-fear/#comment-878837582 http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-helps-... Women aren't frail damsels that need your condescending efforts, or need your overly protective assumptions that are mainly patriarchy disguised as a cape to help them cross a puddle that you can manage. The key to more women in tech is outreach and education, not patronization and tales that they are frail, and need protection and special treatment. You can have the last word, but next time, try reading the link I share with you.
- danilocampos 13y ago
  > Women aren't frail damsels that need your condescending efforts, or need your overly protective assumptions... On its own, that does indeed seem reasonable, even if dubiously relevant. But where does the "self-victimization" come in? This remains my chief curiosity and you've yet to address it beyond general hand-waving in the direction of a very lengthy block of text. If you might kindly boil your position on "self-victimization" into a sentence or two, I would be most appreciative. I am challenged to square it with your other remarks, but I'm certain I'm just missing something.
- mnicole 13y ago
  No one's saying women need to be coddled; the problem is that people recognize that the current state of the industry/the internet are jerks. You can only tell people to ignore bullying so long, especially when those doing the bullying aren't being punished, but those that are being victimized by it are being told to instead change this perceived weakness about themselves. People should not have to worry about being made fun of while they're trying to learn something difficult. Recently we had that female Mozilla employee whose code (for a personal project, no less) was made fun of by three semi-prominent developers on Twitter. The consensus on HN was that there was nothing wrong with her code, but that she was being picked on solely for being a girl. In bringing the issue up, two of the three apologized, with the third going the route of "It isn't my fault you are offended,". That is why it is important to foster good relationships, positivity and trust early-on. It has nothing to do with treating anyone like a princess and everything to do with the truth of how people treat women online (and off) and allowing these girls to find mentors and people that inspire them that they can better relate to. The commenter you linked to doesn't realize that within that repo, there's a Team of everyone that signed up for this, allowing them to start projects and teach amongst themselves. That is the end-game here; allow people to learn without concern. No one seemed to have a problem with the concept of private repos before this and the Ada Initiative's private repo was highly successful; I wonder why.
  - flootch 13y ago
    Recently we had that female Mozilla employee whose code (for a personal project, no less) was made fun of by three semi-prominent developers on Twitter. The consensus on HN was that there was nothing wrong with her code, but that she was being picked on solely for being a girl. I think that was your consensus, but here is the thread, my very brief rescan of that doesn't indicate to me that her being a woman was the issue, the consensus seems to be that twitter makes it trivial to be an asshole, and many people are happy to jump in. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5106767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5106767 In general I see lots of assertion that men in tech treat women terribly, but not much evidence. The evidence that is there usually points to events that took place before employment. In this case, our 17 year old heroine clearly faced no jerks in tech, though it is likely she faced jerks in high school. And it's not at all clear to me that any abuse she has suffered as female nerd in high school is any worse than the abuse male nerds face.