21 ms·

That last paragraph is exactly the reason i hate this sexist talks, it doesn't matter if its the boys or girls that are complaining.. I don't know if that's th

by cosmez 13y ago

That last paragraph is exactly the reason i hate this sexist talks, it doesn't matter if its the boys or girls that are complaining.. I don't know if that's the case in the place you are living right now but, if you think that being a boy or a girl its an advantage then you are part of that problem.. Boys will always be boys, ignore them and move on.

eridius 13y ago
If you can't recognize that men have a vast amount of privilege compared to women, then I don't really know what to say. Last year a man named Geordie Tait posted an article called "To My Someday Daughter"[1]. It's quite long, but definitely worth reading. The context is gaming, but the central thesis is sexism. One quote from the article that really opened my eyes to how radically different men and women view the world comes from section 7 of the article. It's a quote by Gavin de Becker, and it says "Men and women live in different worlds. At core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core, women are afraid men will kill them." And according to my girlfriend, this is not even the slightest bit exaggerated. [1]: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/22786_To_My_Someday_Daughter.html http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/22786_To_My_Someday_...
- cosmez 13y ago
  Gender problems depends a lot on where are you living. That's not the case where i live in, why? because we do not care about such things, treat woman and man the same way. unlike the old american racism, in modern countries there are no laws that discriminate girls.. why should we teach our daughters to fight for something that's not a problem? Education is all we need, why should they hide their code? they should be proud of it
  - eridius 13y ago
    Where do you live? I have an extremely hard time believing that there is no gender inequality where you live. Far more likely is simply that you're blind to the inequality, having grown up immersed in male privilege.
    - cosmez 13y ago
      Mexico, it looks like you're taking this too personal, keep calm and happy coding :)
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- pifflesnort 13y ago
  > If you can't recognize that men have a vast amount of privilege compared to women, then I don't really know what to say. The locally-defined concept of "male privilege" is quite possibly the least productive gender generalization to use in a conversation about gender equality. This -- along with redefinitions of vocabulary to justify offense (see the comment about 'female' being offensive), and truisms that assert that any opposition to preferred policy is opposition to gender equality (see the reference to Lewis's law, or your own murder quote), are why these conversations are so pointlessly and ridiculously laden in rhetorical nonsense as to be useless. > "Men and women live in different worlds. At core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core, women are afraid men will kill them." And according to my girlfriend, this is not even the slightest bit exaggerated. According to my wife, this is ridiculous and your girlfriend should adopt a more fact-based view of the world. I looked it up. From 2000 to 2010, there were 128,971 male victims of murder in the US. There were 35,777 female victims. http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata To use your own rhetorical approach: if you disagree with me, "then I don't really know what to say". (sarcasm intended).
  - jmj42 13y ago
    > The locally-defined concept of "male privilege" is quite possibly the least productive gender generalization to use in a conversation about gender equality. Well, let's clear it up then: "Male privilege refers to the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women." It's actually a fairly useful generalization, and most understand what's implied by the use of the term. Of course the real problem isn't the use of rhetoric, it's the outright dismissal of the argument because rhetoric or faux outrage was used to make a point (or, as in my original comment, _real_ outrage). I'm sorry to say, but we're past the time to be calm, cool, and collected. It's time to get angry, and it's time to put and end to gender inequality. Especially in tech, where we claim to hold ourselves to a higher moral standard.
    - pifflesnort 13y ago
      > Well, let's clear it up then: "Male privilege refers to the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women." The useful part is "... which are usually denied to women". The rest is just divisive stereotyping. > It's actually a fairly useful generalization, and most understand what's implied by the use of the term. Useful how, exactly? Other than stoking the flames of online discourse, and writing off viewpoints by using "privilege" as a rhetorical bat, I don't see much that can be usefully garnered by pulling the trigger on that particular weapon. > It's time to get angry, and it's time to put and end to gender inequality. Especially in tech, where we claim to hold ourselves to a higher moral standard. As far as I can tell, you're getting angry at the wrong people, for the wrong reasons. You really think the tech industry is responsible for clueless mouth breathers telling your daughters that technology is 'boy stuff'? I'd look at the educational system and the magazine rack at the supermarket. By the time someone gets to the technology industry, they've already been subjected to a lifetime of indoctrination and have missed out on critical educational opportunities. We're not paid to be educators or social crusaders; we're here to write software, design hardware, and ship products. We do need to have access to better candidates, and one way to do that is by broadening the pool to draw from, but divisive adults playing at identity politics won't help with that problem.
- johnbm 13y ago
  Like most things the Ada Initiative does, this makes no sense once you scratch past the surface. Even if women risk more criticism as newbies, the risk still exists for everyone, and solving it for part of the group only is discrimination. If Github really cared about intimidation, they would offer a free private repo to new users as a promo, or perhaps have a $1/month micro plan. Instead they accept a small minority of users for free who wouldn't have paid anyway and score good will PR points. And if the Ada Initiative cared about making women a part of the community, then they would recognize that those women will want to collaborate in private with men too, who should be given the same opportunity to experiment in private. Modern feminists are the biggest sexists around, they keep acting like women can't compete with men on equal ground, even in a place as anonymous as the internet. Have you ever noticed how the people complaining the loudest about online abuse are always the ones with the biggest pictures of themselves on their blogs? Featuring their lovely blue hair, tattoos, piercings, shot in their Pinterest-approved bedrooms? It's princesses all over again, and most women can see through the bullshit too.
jmj42 13y ago
No, you got it wrong. >if you think that being a boy or a girl its an advantage then you are part of that problem Unwillingness to recognize that women are at a disadvantage due to long-term social mores is part of the problem. "Boys will always be boys, ignore them and move on?" You really don't get it, do you? Every little comment, snide remark, finger pointing... Words are sharp, they cut deep. In the end, it's these social pressures that result in fewer women entering STEM programs and careers. Ignoring them? No, that's not what we do. We, as men, must stop ignoring the problem, and put ourselves out there. Stop being silent, the problem will not go away, unless we speak up.
- cosmez 13y ago
  Like i said before.. this is not a world wide social problem, my college was almost half boys, half girls. The highest grade was a girl, why? not because she was a girl.. but because she was freaking smart. Its like african americans complaining about racism, i don't get it.. they are the coolest thing on earth right now!! Ignore that uneducated minority and move on.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - derrida 13y ago
    cosmez: > Its like african americans complaining about racism, i don't get it.. they are the coolest thing on earth right now!! Ignore that uneducated minority and move on. rac·ism /ˈrāˌsizəm/ Noun The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race.
  - jmj42 13y ago
    I'm sure there are areas of the world where gender equality isn't a problem, but where your're from (mexico as indicated above) it most certainly is. A quick internet search came up with hundreds of articles on the gender equality issues in Mexico, including, a female to male income ratio of .62, ranking Mexico 53rd (USA is 13th at .67). So guess what, privileged male, it is a very big problem where you live.

by cosmez 13y ago

eridius 13y ago

If you can't recognize that men have a vast amount of privilege compared to women, then I don't really know what to say. Last year a man named Geordie Tait posted an article called "To My Someday Daughter"[1]. It's quite long, but definitely worth reading. The context is gaming, but the central thesis is sexism. One quote from the article that really opened my eyes to how radically different men and women view the world comes from section 7 of the article. It's a quote by Gavin de Becker, and it says "Men and women live in different worlds. At core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core, women are afraid men will kill them." And according to my girlfriend, this is not even the slightest bit exaggerated. [1]: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/22786_To_My_Someday_Daughter.html http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/22786_To_My_Someday_...

cosmez 13y ago
Gender problems depends a lot on where are you living. That's not the case where i live in, why? because we do not care about such things, treat woman and man the same way. unlike the old american racism, in modern countries there are no laws that discriminate girls.. why should we teach our daughters to fight for something that's not a problem? Education is all we need, why should they hide their code? they should be proud of it
- eridius 13y ago
  Where do you live? I have an extremely hard time believing that there is no gender inequality where you live. Far more likely is simply that you're blind to the inequality, having grown up immersed in male privilege.
  - cosmez 13y ago
    Mexico, it looks like you're taking this too personal, keep calm and happy coding :)
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
pifflesnort 13y ago
> If you can't recognize that men have a vast amount of privilege compared to women, then I don't really know what to say. The locally-defined concept of "male privilege" is quite possibly the least productive gender generalization to use in a conversation about gender equality. This -- along with redefinitions of vocabulary to justify offense (see the comment about 'female' being offensive), and truisms that assert that any opposition to preferred policy is opposition to gender equality (see the reference to Lewis's law, or your own murder quote), are why these conversations are so pointlessly and ridiculously laden in rhetorical nonsense as to be useless. > "Men and women live in different worlds. At core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core, women are afraid men will kill them." And according to my girlfriend, this is not even the slightest bit exaggerated. According to my wife, this is ridiculous and your girlfriend should adopt a more fact-based view of the world. I looked it up. From 2000 to 2010, there were 128,971 male victims of murder in the US. There were 35,777 female victims. http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata To use your own rhetorical approach: if you disagree with me, "then I don't really know what to say". (sarcasm intended).
- jmj42 13y ago
  > The locally-defined concept of "male privilege" is quite possibly the least productive gender generalization to use in a conversation about gender equality. Well, let's clear it up then: "Male privilege refers to the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women." It's actually a fairly useful generalization, and most understand what's implied by the use of the term. Of course the real problem isn't the use of rhetoric, it's the outright dismissal of the argument because rhetoric or faux outrage was used to make a point (or, as in my original comment, _real_ outrage). I'm sorry to say, but we're past the time to be calm, cool, and collected. It's time to get angry, and it's time to put and end to gender inequality. Especially in tech, where we claim to hold ourselves to a higher moral standard.
  - pifflesnort 13y ago
    > Well, let's clear it up then: "Male privilege refers to the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women." The useful part is "... which are usually denied to women". The rest is just divisive stereotyping. > It's actually a fairly useful generalization, and most understand what's implied by the use of the term. Useful how, exactly? Other than stoking the flames of online discourse, and writing off viewpoints by using "privilege" as a rhetorical bat, I don't see much that can be usefully garnered by pulling the trigger on that particular weapon. > It's time to get angry, and it's time to put and end to gender inequality. Especially in tech, where we claim to hold ourselves to a higher moral standard. As far as I can tell, you're getting angry at the wrong people, for the wrong reasons. You really think the tech industry is responsible for clueless mouth breathers telling your daughters that technology is 'boy stuff'? I'd look at the educational system and the magazine rack at the supermarket. By the time someone gets to the technology industry, they've already been subjected to a lifetime of indoctrination and have missed out on critical educational opportunities. We're not paid to be educators or social crusaders; we're here to write software, design hardware, and ship products. We do need to have access to better candidates, and one way to do that is by broadening the pool to draw from, but divisive adults playing at identity politics won't help with that problem.
johnbm 13y ago
Like most things the Ada Initiative does, this makes no sense once you scratch past the surface. Even if women risk more criticism as newbies, the risk still exists for everyone, and solving it for part of the group only is discrimination. If Github really cared about intimidation, they would offer a free private repo to new users as a promo, or perhaps have a $1/month micro plan. Instead they accept a small minority of users for free who wouldn't have paid anyway and score good will PR points. And if the Ada Initiative cared about making women a part of the community, then they would recognize that those women will want to collaborate in private with men too, who should be given the same opportunity to experiment in private. Modern feminists are the biggest sexists around, they keep acting like women can't compete with men on equal ground, even in a place as anonymous as the internet. Have you ever noticed how the people complaining the loudest about online abuse are always the ones with the biggest pictures of themselves on their blogs? Featuring their lovely blue hair, tattoos, piercings, shot in their Pinterest-approved bedrooms? It's princesses all over again, and most women can see through the bullshit too.

jmj42 13y ago

No, you got it wrong. >if you think that being a boy or a girl its an advantage then you are part of that problem Unwillingness to recognize that women are at a disadvantage due to long-term social mores is part of the problem. "Boys will always be boys, ignore them and move on?" You really don't get it, do you? Every little comment, snide remark, finger pointing... Words are sharp, they cut deep. In the end, it's these social pressures that result in fewer women entering STEM programs and careers. Ignoring them? No, that's not what we do. We, as men, must stop ignoring the problem, and put ourselves out there. Stop being silent, the problem will not go away, unless we speak up.

cosmez 13y ago
Like i said before.. this is not a world wide social problem, my college was almost half boys, half girls. The highest grade was a girl, why? not because she was a girl.. but because she was freaking smart. Its like african americans complaining about racism, i don't get it.. they are the coolest thing on earth right now!! Ignore that uneducated minority and move on.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- derrida 13y ago
  cosmez: > Its like african americans complaining about racism, i don't get it.. they are the coolest thing on earth right now!! Ignore that uneducated minority and move on. rac·ism /ˈrāˌsizəm/ Noun The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race.
- jmj42 13y ago
  I'm sure there are areas of the world where gender equality isn't a problem, but where your're from (mexico as indicated above) it most certainly is. A quick internet search came up with hundreds of articles on the gender equality issues in Mexico, including, a female to male income ratio of .62, ranking Mexico 53rd (USA is 13th at .67). So guess what, privileged male, it is a very big problem where you live.