5 ms·

In India, Cows Are Sacred, Women Are Dispensable

39 points by cmaher 13y ago

kunai 13y ago
I am male, but I'm a strong feminist. I refuse to use GoDaddy for hosting because of their degrading and objectifying advertising campaign. But there's a problem stemming from two different views on feminism. It seems like there are two distinct sides, and no neutral ground, for women's rights, and how one goes about fighting for them. On one hand, you have sexually repressed apes perpetually abusing women and nobody bats an eye. And on the other hand, you have clinically insane extremists who freak out over jokes about Github. It's sad that we can't fight for what matters, which is women's rights. It's either go completely mad about it or do nothing at all.
- gurvinder 13y ago
  I don't think its right to call them two sides, when "sexually repressed apes perpetually abusing women" are million times more than "clinically insane extremists"
  - pekk 13y ago
    What? The point is that people are freaking out on normal and moderate people doing nothing while there are still extremely serious and obvious cases actually worth freaking out about.
- subsystem 13y ago
  Disagreement is a pretty low standard for extremism.
  - kunai 13y ago
    So, publicly shaming and getting two individuals fired for talking about forking a Git repo isn't extremism?
    - subsystem 13y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-barreled_question http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-barreled_question I do think rape and death threats are, at least, extremist behavior.
      - kunai 13y ago
        Who said it wasn't? I just think it's not healthy to only look at one side of the equation.
      - pekk 13y ago
        The gents at the conference did not rape anyone, threaten rape or make death threats.
        jaibot 13y ago
        And she didn't fire them. She just posted a picture and a description of what they were doing to make her uncomfortable. Nothing terrible happened at PyCon. The three people directly involved are all fine people.
- smoyer 13y ago
  I am male and not a feminist, because I disagree with their man-hating propaganda ("A women needs a man like a bicycle needs a fish"). But I am all for equivalence and my wife is my equal as well as my partner (well ... if I admit it, she's my better half in almost every way). I think I'll go hug her - bye.
  - EvilLook 13y ago
    >I disagree with their man-hating propaganda ("A women needs a man like a bicycle needs a fish") How in the world is that man-hating? Would it be woman-hating to say "A man needs a woman like a bicycle needs a fish"?
  - EliRivers 13y ago
    "I am male and not a feminist,... But I am all for equivalence" That's feminism. You're a feminist.
    - arbus 13y ago
      > "I am male and not a feminist,... But I am all for equivalence" Actually thats Egalitarianism, not necessarily Feminism.
      - EliRivers 13y ago
        I'm using the common dictionary definitions I find, which granted is by no means a guarantee of what the word "means". dictionary.com gives me "the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men", which to my mind suggests that if someone is "all for equivalence" then equivalence for women is a subset of that, so includes feminism. So yes, I stand corrected. Being "all for equivalence" includes feminism, but is more than feminism; the OP is a feminist, and more.
        smoyer 13y ago
        Except I didn't actually state that I was only for the equality of men and women ... There are a lot more inequalities that can be overcome (starting with stereotypes and prejudices).
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- jaibot 13y ago
  It's...not though. You can do whatever you want. No one else forces your actions, and your dichotomy is a false one. That said, if someone says that a joke about github (or anything else) is making them uncomfortable, it's probably worth at least listening to them. Especially if they have lived a life sufficiently different from yours that their subjective experiences are likely to be somewhat distant from yours, and especially especially if they are of a demographic people judge harshly (as determined by IATs: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/selectatest.html https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/selectatest.html
cwbrandsma 13y ago
I'm looking at her list of things she has to do at the bottom of the article. My wife and daughters do most of those (including a modesty scarf)...and we live in the USA.
- mikestew 13y ago
  Do your wife and daughters do those things for the same reasons as the author? If so, I'm curious about where you live. Because just a walk through the local mall (granted, affluent suburban Seattle) indicates to me that the fears of the author are not shared by the women in my area of the USA.
amartya916 13y ago
Gandhi said "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way in which its animals are treated." I guess Gandhi forgot that cows in India really do have it pretty good. Unfortunately, we, the people of india, haven't been able to pass a vital measure of moral progress: how do we treat our women. The woman taking a walk, travelling on public transit or the countless other examples that the author cites, should serve as a reminder of how spectacularly we have failed as a society. I wouldn't be surprised if we have actually regressed significantly [2]. It's hard to be optimistic about India, but hopefully these shocking incidents would stir up enough Indians to take notice and try to do something about it. For example, education(including sex ed. by the way) is a start. I am not sure how literacy rates have been affected by the RTE [1] act that came into effect in 2010, but I am hopeful that in the longer run, it'll improve our society. [1] Right to Education Act: http://mhrd.gov.in/rte http://mhrd.gov.in/rte [2] An interview from the former king of Travancore (read the last question, the one about matriarchs): http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/Chunk-HT-UI-ViewsSectionPage-Interviews/The-riches-belong-to-nobody-certainly-not-to-our-family/Article1-719270.aspx http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/Chunk-HT-UI-ViewsSec...
- kumarski 13y ago
  Gandhi was also a known pedophile. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/29/india-rape-victim-dies-sexual-violence-proble/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/29...
  - rraval 13y ago
    Nothing in the article you linked supports your claim. It doesn't even mention the words "Gandhi" or "pedophile". Intrigued by your claim, I turned to Google to find more. The only credible link was an article by the Huffington Post [1], and the claim had been redacted. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/the-gandhi-none-of-us-kne_b_842941.html‬ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/the-gandhi-none-o...
    - amartya916 13y ago
test001only 13y ago
One more article which goes on about how bad it is for women in India without suggesting any method of setting the wrong right. Women are also considered sacred but as goes for any religion, people take and interpret what they find suitable for themselves. The laws are there for namesake and enforced only when the perpetrator is from the lower rung of the society while powerful criminals go free. Also women from the economically and socially backward are not even aware of the protection the law guarantees them. We do not need one more article which goes on and on about how bad it is in India. We get that from the media everyday. We need practical solutions and discussions around it.
gallinaponedora 13y ago
written by... a woman. surprise surprise. Well, she just need to move to a country where men are dispensable. She´s in luck because that's just about any other country in the world except for evil India of course. Disclaimer: I didn´t read the "article"

39 points by cmaher 13y ago

kunai 13y ago

I am male, but I'm a strong feminist. I refuse to use GoDaddy for hosting because of their degrading and objectifying advertising campaign. But there's a problem stemming from two different views on feminism. It seems like there are two distinct sides, and no neutral ground, for women's rights, and how one goes about fighting for them. On one hand, you have sexually repressed apes perpetually abusing women and nobody bats an eye. And on the other hand, you have clinically insane extremists who freak out over jokes about Github. It's sad that we can't fight for what matters, which is women's rights. It's either go completely mad about it or do nothing at all.

gurvinder 13y ago
I don't think its right to call them two sides, when "sexually repressed apes perpetually abusing women" are million times more than "clinically insane extremists"
- pekk 13y ago
  What? The point is that people are freaking out on normal and moderate people doing nothing while there are still extremely serious and obvious cases actually worth freaking out about.
subsystem 13y ago
Disagreement is a pretty low standard for extremism.
- kunai 13y ago
  So, publicly shaming and getting two individuals fired for talking about forking a Git repo isn't extremism?
  - subsystem 13y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-barreled_question http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-barreled_question I do think rape and death threats are, at least, extremist behavior.
    - kunai 13y ago
      Who said it wasn't? I just think it's not healthy to only look at one side of the equation.
    - pekk 13y ago
      The gents at the conference did not rape anyone, threaten rape or make death threats.
      - jaibot 13y ago
        And she didn't fire them. She just posted a picture and a description of what they were doing to make her uncomfortable. Nothing terrible happened at PyCon. The three people directly involved are all fine people.
smoyer 13y ago
I am male and not a feminist, because I disagree with their man-hating propaganda ("A women needs a man like a bicycle needs a fish"). But I am all for equivalence and my wife is my equal as well as my partner (well ... if I admit it, she's my better half in almost every way). I think I'll go hug her - bye.
- EvilLook 13y ago
  >I disagree with their man-hating propaganda ("A women needs a man like a bicycle needs a fish") How in the world is that man-hating? Would it be woman-hating to say "A man needs a woman like a bicycle needs a fish"?
- EliRivers 13y ago
  "I am male and not a feminist,... But I am all for equivalence" That's feminism. You're a feminist.
  - arbus 13y ago
    > "I am male and not a feminist,... But I am all for equivalence" Actually thats Egalitarianism, not necessarily Feminism.
    - EliRivers 13y ago
      I'm using the common dictionary definitions I find, which granted is by no means a guarantee of what the word "means". dictionary.com gives me "the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men", which to my mind suggests that if someone is "all for equivalence" then equivalence for women is a subset of that, so includes feminism. So yes, I stand corrected. Being "all for equivalence" includes feminism, but is more than feminism; the OP is a feminist, and more.
      - smoyer 13y ago
        Except I didn't actually state that I was only for the equality of men and women ... There are a lot more inequalities that can be overcome (starting with stereotypes and prejudices).
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
jaibot 13y ago
It's...not though. You can do whatever you want. No one else forces your actions, and your dichotomy is a false one. That said, if someone says that a joke about github (or anything else) is making them uncomfortable, it's probably worth at least listening to them. Especially if they have lived a life sufficiently different from yours that their subjective experiences are likely to be somewhat distant from yours, and especially especially if they are of a demographic people judge harshly (as determined by IATs: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/selectatest.html https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/selectatest.html

cwbrandsma 13y ago

I'm looking at her list of things she has to do at the bottom of the article. My wife and daughters do most of those (including a modesty scarf)...and we live in the USA.

mikestew 13y ago
Do your wife and daughters do those things for the same reasons as the author? If so, I'm curious about where you live. Because just a walk through the local mall (granted, affluent suburban Seattle) indicates to me that the fears of the author are not shared by the women in my area of the USA.

amartya916 13y ago

Gandhi said "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way in which its animals are treated." I guess Gandhi forgot that cows in India really do have it pretty good. Unfortunately, we, the people of india, haven't been able to pass a vital measure of moral progress: how do we treat our women. The woman taking a walk, travelling on public transit or the countless other examples that the author cites, should serve as a reminder of how spectacularly we have failed as a society. I wouldn't be surprised if we have actually regressed significantly [2]. It's hard to be optimistic about India, but hopefully these shocking incidents would stir up enough Indians to take notice and try to do something about it. For example, education(including sex ed. by the way) is a start. I am not sure how literacy rates have been affected by the RTE [1] act that came into effect in 2010, but I am hopeful that in the longer run, it'll improve our society. [1] Right to Education Act: http://mhrd.gov.in/rte http://mhrd.gov.in/rte [2] An interview from the former king of Travancore (read the last question, the one about matriarchs): http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/Chunk-HT-UI-ViewsSectionPage-Interviews/The-riches-belong-to-nobody-certainly-not-to-our-family/Article1-719270.aspx http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/Chunk-HT-UI-ViewsSec...

kumarski 13y ago
Gandhi was also a known pedophile. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/29/india-rape-victim-dies-sexual-violence-proble/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/29...
- rraval 13y ago
  Nothing in the article you linked supports your claim. It doesn't even mention the words "Gandhi" or "pedophile". Intrigued by your claim, I turned to Google to find more. The only credible link was an article by the Huffington Post [1], and the claim had been redacted. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/the-gandhi-none-of-us-kne_b_842941.html‬ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/the-gandhi-none-o...
  - amartya916 13y ago

test001only 13y ago

One more article which goes on about how bad it is for women in India without suggesting any method of setting the wrong right. Women are also considered sacred but as goes for any religion, people take and interpret what they find suitable for themselves. The laws are there for namesake and enforced only when the perpetrator is from the lower rung of the society while powerful criminals go free. Also women from the economically and socially backward are not even aware of the protection the law guarantees them. We do not need one more article which goes on and on about how bad it is in India. We get that from the media everyday. We need practical solutions and discussions around it.

gallinaponedora 13y ago

written by... a woman. surprise surprise. Well, she just need to move to a country where men are dispensable. She´s in luck because that's just about any other country in the world except for evil India of course. Disclaimer: I didn´t read the "article"