Oh, I don't mean app positions or use patterns or anything like that. I mean toolkit widgets like sliders, buttons, chrome, window manager elements, that kind o

Oh, I don't mean app positions or use patterns or anything like that. I mean toolkit widgets like sliders, buttons, chrome, window manager elements, that kind of thing. And for the record i feel the exact same way about plain xtk, old style gtk/gnome and probably win2k and earlier if i saw em. I had to go and look at a bunch of screenshots to come up with an answer besides just the "feel". I think a big part of it is the heavy reliance on thin embossed/3d borders and lines, no rounded or softened elements, the limited palette use in core elements, no rich gradients or transparencies. I didn't realize it at all until i made the list, but I guess a big part of it is the look of a toolkit/window manager that was built on top of a 3d api and compositor. I guess the gpu industry norms are a huge barrier for anyone on an alternate path.