8 ms·

What you mean by this is that the key signature tells you what the tonic is, and, conversely, what the supertonic, mediant, subdominant, dominant, etc. are. Wh

What you mean by this is that the key signature tells you what the tonic is, and, conversely, what the supertonic, mediant, subdominant, dominant, etc. are. Whenever I teach key signatures this is the biggest thing I try to impart: key signatures are more than just accidentals, they define the roles each pitch plays.

valdiorn 13y ago
ehm, I would disagree. The key signature tells you what key the piece is in, period. What the particular notes in that key do (their role, as you put it) is a property of that key.
- jofer 13y ago
  I believe he was referring to the "put my brain in G" comment. It's all about recognizing when to build tension and when to resolve tension. Yes, the roles that the notes play is defined by the key, but if you don't mentally make the switch, you'll often perform things poorly because you don't anticipate where things are going correctly. Or at least that's how it works for me, at any rate. Take anything I say with a grain of salt. I can't sight-read much at all.
- icarus_drowning 13y ago
  How is "tell[ing] you what key the piece is in" different that defining tonic/dominant/leading tone relationships? Those relationships are the product of the whole/half step pattern that the key signature communicates. It isn't just important that G has 1 sharp, and it is F. That sharp actually defines the leading tone.
  - colomon 13y ago
    That's only if the tonic is G. I play tunes all the time with one sharp, but a tonic of D. (ie D mixolydian.)
    - icarus_drowning 13y ago
      Sure, but I'd argue that's because the key signature is wrong. The correct way to notate that is with either a modal key signature a la Bartok or notate it as D with a constant natural on the C, showing that the tonal center is D while clearly notating the departure from the traditional major scale.
      - rquantz 13y ago
        Spoken like a true musicologist.
      - colomon 13y ago
        By this standard probably something like 30% of the music ever written has the wrong key signature -- and I've never seen a piece of non-major music with a correctly notated key signature!
lmg643 13y ago
Agreed. Hummingbird seems like a solution in search of a problem. I could see someone trying to learn to sight read music, get frustrated with how it is "broken" and then invent something like this, which seems far less clear to me than the old way. sight reading is hard because of the cognitive work involved with translating, say, eight notes at a time into the appropriate finger-patterns, rhythm and pace; or translating fewer notes but at a faster rate. i don't see this making it easier. i'm not sure why they would bother. anyone who finds sight reading too tough, might not really ever need sheet music, whether they do it by ear, or just listen to music. my friend has a disklavier - incredible. robot plays the piano better than i ever could. it makes me wonder why i still bother to try and play, and then i remind myself that every feeble attempt i make is intrinsically satisfying to me, so i keep trying.
- vacri 13y ago
  I am a neophyte at reading music, but I think that the pitch symbols are almost entirely noise. They would help me personally (oh, that's a 'C' there, I don't have to count the lines!) but for anyone with a modicum of sight reading, surely they already know where the C is due to its location on the staff? At that point, pitch is already represented and the filled figures are noise. I wonder if a suitable analogy would be like underlining all capital letters in a selection of prose - useful for the neophyte, chaff for the slightly experienced onwards. robot plays the piano better than i ever could Apart from the personal enjoyment angle, robots also can't detect the mood of the audience (yet) and play to suit.
  - jliechti1 13y ago
    Agreed. As a pianist, I not only look at the position of individual notes, but also the positions of the next 3 to 6 consecutive notes. This way I can think in "groups" of notes - which is very helpful for sightreading broken chords quickly. The one place I could see pitch symbols being slightly beneficial is when notes are either way above or way below the staff. But even then, after some deliberate practice these can be recognized pretty quickly as well.
    - 13y ago
raverbashing 13y ago
Yes About hummingbird, it's amazing. Really, I found it strange in the first minute. Then I got it Why? My major peeve with traditional notation is the lines above and below. And I never know what are they talking about after adding some lines above the stave. About the key signature, 100% agree. As pretty much all students, I thought the key signature just meant which notes are always sharp or flat ("oh these guys want us to use more black keys - BORING") It took me some time to get it. It's not about flat or sharp, but as they said it, it's 'G Major mode'. Then you feel everything is clearer. It's like going from understanding words in a phrase to understanding the phrase.

valdiorn 13y ago

ehm, I would disagree. The key signature tells you what key the piece is in, period. What the particular notes in that key do (their role, as you put it) is a property of that key.

jofer 13y ago
I believe he was referring to the "put my brain in G" comment. It's all about recognizing when to build tension and when to resolve tension. Yes, the roles that the notes play is defined by the key, but if you don't mentally make the switch, you'll often perform things poorly because you don't anticipate where things are going correctly. Or at least that's how it works for me, at any rate. Take anything I say with a grain of salt. I can't sight-read much at all.
icarus_drowning 13y ago
How is "tell[ing] you what key the piece is in" different that defining tonic/dominant/leading tone relationships? Those relationships are the product of the whole/half step pattern that the key signature communicates. It isn't just important that G has 1 sharp, and it is F. That sharp actually defines the leading tone.
- colomon 13y ago
  That's only if the tonic is G. I play tunes all the time with one sharp, but a tonic of D. (ie D mixolydian.)
  - icarus_drowning 13y ago
    Sure, but I'd argue that's because the key signature is wrong. The correct way to notate that is with either a modal key signature a la Bartok or notate it as D with a constant natural on the C, showing that the tonal center is D while clearly notating the departure from the traditional major scale.
    - rquantz 13y ago
      Spoken like a true musicologist.
    - colomon 13y ago
      By this standard probably something like 30% of the music ever written has the wrong key signature -- and I've never seen a piece of non-major music with a correctly notated key signature!

lmg643 13y ago

Agreed. Hummingbird seems like a solution in search of a problem. I could see someone trying to learn to sight read music, get frustrated with how it is "broken" and then invent something like this, which seems far less clear to me than the old way. sight reading is hard because of the cognitive work involved with translating, say, eight notes at a time into the appropriate finger-patterns, rhythm and pace; or translating fewer notes but at a faster rate. i don't see this making it easier. i'm not sure why they would bother. anyone who finds sight reading too tough, might not really ever need sheet music, whether they do it by ear, or just listen to music. my friend has a disklavier - incredible. robot plays the piano better than i ever could. it makes me wonder why i still bother to try and play, and then i remind myself that every feeble attempt i make is intrinsically satisfying to me, so i keep trying.

vacri 13y ago
I am a neophyte at reading music, but I think that the pitch symbols are almost entirely noise. They would help me personally (oh, that's a 'C' there, I don't have to count the lines!) but for anyone with a modicum of sight reading, surely they already know where the C is due to its location on the staff? At that point, pitch is already represented and the filled figures are noise. I wonder if a suitable analogy would be like underlining all capital letters in a selection of prose - useful for the neophyte, chaff for the slightly experienced onwards. robot plays the piano better than i ever could Apart from the personal enjoyment angle, robots also can't detect the mood of the audience (yet) and play to suit.
- jliechti1 13y ago
  Agreed. As a pianist, I not only look at the position of individual notes, but also the positions of the next 3 to 6 consecutive notes. This way I can think in "groups" of notes - which is very helpful for sightreading broken chords quickly. The one place I could see pitch symbols being slightly beneficial is when notes are either way above or way below the staff. But even then, after some deliberate practice these can be recognized pretty quickly as well.
  - 13y ago

raverbashing 13y ago

Yes About hummingbird, it's amazing. Really, I found it strange in the first minute. Then I got it Why? My major peeve with traditional notation is the lines above and below. And I never know what are they talking about after adding some lines above the stave. About the key signature, 100% agree. As pretty much all students, I thought the key signature just meant which notes are always sharp or flat ("oh these guys want us to use more black keys - BORING") It took me some time to get it. It's not about flat or sharp, but as they said it, it's 'G Major mode'. Then you feel everything is clearer. It's like going from understanding words in a phrase to understanding the phrase.