6 ms·

This is great, but I bet apple's suppliers and manufacturers aren't anywhere close to this level of renewable energy.

by rfurlong 14y ago

bluthru 14y ago
"This is great but everything isn't perfect yet, so meh."
- furyg3 14y ago
  "Meh" is a pretty good way of summarizing humanity's energy relationship with the environment.
rimantas 14y ago
Are those suppliers and manufacturers supplying and manufacturing for Apple only, or for other companies too?
- rfurlong 14y ago
  I am saying Apple makes physical products and its probably the biggest part of their business and its not represented in their renewable energy numbers. I don't think wrong to want more clarity and less PR when it comes to the environment.
yalogin 14y ago
So what's the point? Do you think its still better than not using renewable energy or not? Also there is no mandate to use 100% renewable energy is there?
- salem 14y ago
  The point is that this is green washing, and the bulk of their manufacturing operations is excluded from this "100%" figure.
  - yalogin 14y ago
    I don't understand. The article clearly says the data center is using renewable energy right? You say it like its a bad thing. Every one knows the manufacturing side is what it is. Where is the intent to fool anyone here? Please point me to it.
    - rfurlong 14y ago
      In the linked article Apple also states that the entire company runs on 75% renewable energy. This is the figure I am criticizing.
      - yalogin 14y ago
        Even there they only say corporate facilities and nothing about manufacturing (which is done by outside companies). Do you think they are lying about their corporate facilities using 75% renewable energy? If so can you please point me to any article contradicting that?
        rfurlong 14y ago
        Never said they were lying. I am saying its a purely PR number that doesn't accurately depict the amount of energy that is used for them thrive as much as they have.
        salem 14y ago
        Basically, they are talking about their corporate operations and ignoring the actual resources consumed during their products' lifecycle from manufacture->distribution->sale->use->recycling/disposal. Hence my comment that they are green-washing.
        yalogin 14y ago
        Wow. Sorry to harp on this but you can criticize Apple when they deserve it not because you want to. You are essentially saying they are lying (green-washing) and accusing them of covering up their energy usage in their manufacturing flow. When all they talked about was their energy usage on the corporate side. Are you even reading the same article that the OP posted? Where are you reading that Apple tried to lie? This is a non-story, nothing to read into it at all. A simple nod would have been enough. There is no conspiracy or lying or cover up here. If you see it point it to me.
nilsbunger 14y ago
Data centers are one of the fastest growing power consumers, something like 1.5-2% of all power today (eg http://www.analyticspress.com/datacenters.html http://www.analyticspress.com/datacenters.html). We should all be excited that Facebook, Google, Apple et al are seriously working on reducing that impact. Clearly there's a lot more to be done (manufacturing, transportation, etc), but I don't think that undermines the progress being made in datacenters.
- marshray 14y ago
  I wonder how much of the growth of data centers is due to people moving their computational workload "out of the closet" and into "the cloud"? If cloud virtualization and app hosting is truly a significant driver of data center growth, it seems likely that DCs represent a category shifting and a net reduction of power consumption. So someone concerned with global or national overall energy consumption shouldn't want anyone "working on reducing that impact", they'd want that impact DCs increased. From your linked report: Growth in the installed base of servers in data centers had already begun to slow by early 2007 because of virtualization and other factors. Growth in the installed base of servers in data centers had already begun to slow by early 2007 because of virtualization and other factors. The 2008 financial crisis, the associated economic slowdown, and further improvements in virtualization led to a significant reduction in actual server installed base by 2010 compared to the IDC installed base forecast published in 2007 Also, perhaps more directly: Because cloud computing installations typically have much higher server utilization levels and infrastructure efficiencies than do in-house data centers (with PUEs for some specific facilities lower than 1.1) increased adoption of cloud architectures will result in lower electricity use than if the same computing services were delivered using more conventional approaches.

This is great, but I bet apple's suppliers and manufacturers aren't anywhere close to this level of renewable energy.

bluthru 14y ago

"This is great but everything isn't perfect yet, so meh."

furyg3 14y ago
"Meh" is a pretty good way of summarizing humanity's energy relationship with the environment.

rimantas 14y ago

Are those suppliers and manufacturers supplying and manufacturing for Apple only, or for other companies too?

rfurlong 14y ago
I am saying Apple makes physical products and its probably the biggest part of their business and its not represented in their renewable energy numbers. I don't think wrong to want more clarity and less PR when it comes to the environment.

yalogin 14y ago

So what's the point? Do you think its still better than not using renewable energy or not? Also there is no mandate to use 100% renewable energy is there?

salem 14y ago
The point is that this is green washing, and the bulk of their manufacturing operations is excluded from this "100%" figure.
- yalogin 14y ago
  I don't understand. The article clearly says the data center is using renewable energy right? You say it like its a bad thing. Every one knows the manufacturing side is what it is. Where is the intent to fool anyone here? Please point me to it.
  - rfurlong 14y ago
    In the linked article Apple also states that the entire company runs on 75% renewable energy. This is the figure I am criticizing.
    - yalogin 14y ago
      Even there they only say corporate facilities and nothing about manufacturing (which is done by outside companies). Do you think they are lying about their corporate facilities using 75% renewable energy? If so can you please point me to any article contradicting that?
      - rfurlong 14y ago
        Never said they were lying. I am saying its a purely PR number that doesn't accurately depict the amount of energy that is used for them thrive as much as they have.
        salem 14y ago
        Basically, they are talking about their corporate operations and ignoring the actual resources consumed during their products' lifecycle from manufacture->distribution->sale->use->recycling/disposal. Hence my comment that they are green-washing.
        yalogin 14y ago
        Wow. Sorry to harp on this but you can criticize Apple when they deserve it not because you want to. You are essentially saying they are lying (green-washing) and accusing them of covering up their energy usage in their manufacturing flow. When all they talked about was their energy usage on the corporate side. Are you even reading the same article that the OP posted? Where are you reading that Apple tried to lie? This is a non-story, nothing to read into it at all. A simple nod would have been enough. There is no conspiracy or lying or cover up here. If you see it point it to me.

nilsbunger 14y ago

Data centers are one of the fastest growing power consumers, something like 1.5-2% of all power today (eg http://www.analyticspress.com/datacenters.html http://www.analyticspress.com/datacenters.html). We should all be excited that Facebook, Google, Apple et al are seriously working on reducing that impact. Clearly there's a lot more to be done (manufacturing, transportation, etc), but I don't think that undermines the progress being made in datacenters.

marshray 14y ago
I wonder how much of the growth of data centers is due to people moving their computational workload "out of the closet" and into "the cloud"? If cloud virtualization and app hosting is truly a significant driver of data center growth, it seems likely that DCs represent a category shifting and a net reduction of power consumption. So someone concerned with global or national overall energy consumption shouldn't want anyone "working on reducing that impact", they'd want that impact DCs increased. From your linked report: Growth in the installed base of servers in data centers had already begun to slow by early 2007 because of virtualization and other factors. Growth in the installed base of servers in data centers had already begun to slow by early 2007 because of virtualization and other factors. The 2008 financial crisis, the associated economic slowdown, and further improvements in virtualization led to a significant reduction in actual server installed base by 2010 compared to the IDC installed base forecast published in 2007 Also, perhaps more directly: Because cloud computing installations typically have much higher server utilization levels and infrastructure efficiencies than do in-house data centers (with PUEs for some specific facilities lower than 1.1) increased adoption of cloud architectures will result in lower electricity use than if the same computing services were delivered using more conventional approaches.