6 ms·

I'm Cypriot, and today I've seen 6.75% of my family's savings disappear.

by alexmic 14y ago

bitcartel 14y ago
It's theft from your family, plain and simple. You still have a chance to stop this outrage, as it must pass your parliament, and then other Eurozone parliaments too. Good luck.
- eurleif 14y ago
  >You still have a chance to stop this outrage, as it must pass your parliament, and then other Eurozone parliaments too. Citation needed? My understanding was that this was already in motion, and is going into effect before the banks open on Tuesday.
  - bitcartel 14y ago
    Cyprus makes the key decision. "Cyprus's parliament will decide on Sunday whether savers must pay a levy on bank deposits under terms for an international bailout to avert bankruptcy - with approval far from certain... Cyprus's parliament was due to convene at 4 p.m. (1400 GMT) in an emergency session" http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/17/us-eurozone-cyprus-idUSBRE92E02220130317 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/17/us-eurozone-cyprus... Only then will other Eurozone parliaments rubber-stamp the bail-out funds. If for some unlikely reason the bail-out is not approved, I imagine the Cypriot government would have to swiftly return the money or face a very angry mob. "Hours after euro zone ministers approved 10 billion euros ($13 billion) for Cyprus to stave off bankruptcy, Wolfgang Schaeuble briefed parliament's budget committee and said he would ask the lower house - which has a say on all euro zone rescues - to support the deal. The Bundestag will likely have to vote on the outline of the deal this week, which is the last before the Easter break. German Chancellor Angela Merkel has a majority in the lower parliamentary house. Schaeuble said the house would then likely debate the full Cyprus program in the second half of April before giving its final go-ahead." http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/16/us-eurozone-cyprus-germany-idUSBRE92F09F20130316 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/16/us-eurozone-cyprus... "If the finance ministers reach a deal at Friday's meeting, it's likely to be a broad political decision, with technical details left for next week. The bailout would still have to be approved by parliaments in several eurozone nations, though EU officials say everything should be done by the end of the month." http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/international-business/Eurozone-seeks-to-broker-deal-on-Cyprus-bailout/articleshow/19008333.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/international-bu...
    - justincormack 14y ago
      Technically the money has not been taken yet, bank accounts have just been frozen to keep at least that amount in them (or more). The vote has been postponed until Monday, and it may well not pass, presumably which is why there is a delay. Given that the politicians were just elected a few weeks ago saying this would not happen I imagine some are reluctant to vote in favour.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
- vacri 14y ago
  It's not 'plain and simple', it's a complex situation involving complicated relationships between different parties and knock-on effects. If you want actual 'plain and simple' banking, keep your money under your mattress.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Convert your money to gold and store it under a mattress. Libertarians are funny that way :)
- danieldk 14y ago
  It's theft from your family, plain and simple. I feel very sorry for the parent poster. But, no, it's not that simple. We as Europeans have been spending too much, we have added countries to the Eurozone that were not healthy enough financially so that France's finances would seem relatively ok. For years we the ignored tax evasion and corruption. We as voters and citizens were all part of the problem, and now everyone is going to pay. If the EU didn't bail out Cyprus, his/her savings would be worthless, since their economy would've collapsed. If Cyprus' population is not going to pay heavily, the next bail-out may not be possible, because the populations of the countries lending the money might revolt. I live in The Netherlands, and there's not much solidarity left (which I think is stupid, but anyway). Obviously, it is not a very good manner to seize funds, because the citizens of the next country that needs to be bailed out, will withdraw their savings beforehand.
  - Nightrider 14y ago
    But for some who dearly counted on those savings to pay rent or medicine, to be taken without their consent or knowledge, it is theft, plain and simple. No matter what opinionated armchair economists like you have to say.
    - dmoo 14y ago
      It's not really the first time this has happened, it's just the scale that's different. Pension funds in Ireland have been reduced in a similar fashion. http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6830 http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6830 It's also probably worth noting that in these bailout situations the smaller countries typically do what they are told since the option of not being bailed out are thought to be worse. Where it stings is when the interests of large international financial institutions seem to be placed above those of the citizens of the country involved http://www.notourdebt.ie/ http://www.notourdebt.ie/ But when you join the EU this is what can happen when things go wrong.
    - untog 14y ago
      And of course you are neither opinionated nor an armchair economist? Do you consider taxation to be theft?
- mikeash 14y ago
  Are you one of those folks who thinks that all taxation is theft?
  - bitcartel 14y ago
    Not at all. With personal taxes, you can disagree over the amount to be paid, you have time to prepare your accounts and get your finances in order, you can even refuse to pay and negotiate a settlement with the taxman. In contrast, Cypriot deposit holders are going to wake up on Tuesday and simply find their money gone.
    - mikeash 14y ago
      A lot of the taxes I pay aren't like that. They get taken out of my paycheck whether I like it or not. I think some of that is strictly-speaking optional and can be paid separately, but not all.
johnpowell 14y ago
Are you on the Greek or Turkey side? A good friend of mine is from the north and I am waiting for him to wake up and get his take on things.
- LefterisJP 14y ago
  I guess the guy must be Greek since I think this only applies to the Greek side.
- alexmic 14y ago
  On the non-occupied (Greek) side. I believe this does not affect the occupied (still Greek) side.
tonyedgecombe 14y ago
A bit more direct but not so different from what savers in the US and UK have suffered from quantitive easing in recent years.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Come on, quantitative easing didn't lead to that much extra inflation, at least in the states.
tomjen3 14y ago
Start a riot. That is the only way this will ever get fixed.
- mkr-hn 14y ago
  Riot control is very efficient these days.
  - tomjen3 14y ago
    As was clear in London, Toronto, Athens...
  - Shivetya 14y ago
    Obviously insufficiently large riots, events like this could generate numbers that even make the police wilt. It won't help if they are victims of this loss as well.

I'm Cypriot, and today I've seen 6.75% of my family's savings disappear.

by alexmic 14y ago

I'm Cypriot, and today I've seen 6.75% of my family's savings disappear.

It's theft from your family, plain and simple. You still have a chance to stop this outrage, as it must pass your parliament, and then other Eurozone parliaments too. Good luck.

eurleif 14y ago
>You still have a chance to stop this outrage, as it must pass your parliament, and then other Eurozone parliaments too. Citation needed? My understanding was that this was already in motion, and is going into effect before the banks open on Tuesday.
- bitcartel 14y ago
  Cyprus makes the key decision. "Cyprus's parliament will decide on Sunday whether savers must pay a levy on bank deposits under terms for an international bailout to avert bankruptcy - with approval far from certain... Cyprus's parliament was due to convene at 4 p.m. (1400 GMT) in an emergency session" http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/17/us-eurozone-cyprus-idUSBRE92E02220130317 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/17/us-eurozone-cyprus... Only then will other Eurozone parliaments rubber-stamp the bail-out funds. If for some unlikely reason the bail-out is not approved, I imagine the Cypriot government would have to swiftly return the money or face a very angry mob. "Hours after euro zone ministers approved 10 billion euros ($13 billion) for Cyprus to stave off bankruptcy, Wolfgang Schaeuble briefed parliament's budget committee and said he would ask the lower house - which has a say on all euro zone rescues - to support the deal. The Bundestag will likely have to vote on the outline of the deal this week, which is the last before the Easter break. German Chancellor Angela Merkel has a majority in the lower parliamentary house. Schaeuble said the house would then likely debate the full Cyprus program in the second half of April before giving its final go-ahead." http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/16/us-eurozone-cyprus-germany-idUSBRE92F09F20130316 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/16/us-eurozone-cyprus... "If the finance ministers reach a deal at Friday's meeting, it's likely to be a broad political decision, with technical details left for next week. The bailout would still have to be approved by parliaments in several eurozone nations, though EU officials say everything should be done by the end of the month." http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/international-business/Eurozone-seeks-to-broker-deal-on-Cyprus-bailout/articleshow/19008333.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/international-bu...
  - justincormack 14y ago
    Technically the money has not been taken yet, bank accounts have just been frozen to keep at least that amount in them (or more). The vote has been postponed until Monday, and it may well not pass, presumably which is why there is a delay. Given that the politicians were just elected a few weeks ago saying this would not happen I imagine some are reluctant to vote in favour.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
vacri 14y ago
It's not 'plain and simple', it's a complex situation involving complicated relationships between different parties and knock-on effects. If you want actual 'plain and simple' banking, keep your money under your mattress.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Convert your money to gold and store it under a mattress. Libertarians are funny that way :)
danieldk 14y ago
It's theft from your family, plain and simple. I feel very sorry for the parent poster. But, no, it's not that simple. We as Europeans have been spending too much, we have added countries to the Eurozone that were not healthy enough financially so that France's finances would seem relatively ok. For years we the ignored tax evasion and corruption. We as voters and citizens were all part of the problem, and now everyone is going to pay. If the EU didn't bail out Cyprus, his/her savings would be worthless, since their economy would've collapsed. If Cyprus' population is not going to pay heavily, the next bail-out may not be possible, because the populations of the countries lending the money might revolt. I live in The Netherlands, and there's not much solidarity left (which I think is stupid, but anyway). Obviously, it is not a very good manner to seize funds, because the citizens of the next country that needs to be bailed out, will withdraw their savings beforehand.
- Nightrider 14y ago
  But for some who dearly counted on those savings to pay rent or medicine, to be taken without their consent or knowledge, it is theft, plain and simple. No matter what opinionated armchair economists like you have to say.
  - dmoo 14y ago
    It's not really the first time this has happened, it's just the scale that's different. Pension funds in Ireland have been reduced in a similar fashion. http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6830 http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6830 It's also probably worth noting that in these bailout situations the smaller countries typically do what they are told since the option of not being bailed out are thought to be worse. Where it stings is when the interests of large international financial institutions seem to be placed above those of the citizens of the country involved http://www.notourdebt.ie/ http://www.notourdebt.ie/ But when you join the EU this is what can happen when things go wrong.
  - untog 14y ago
    And of course you are neither opinionated nor an armchair economist? Do you consider taxation to be theft?
mikeash 14y ago
Are you one of those folks who thinks that all taxation is theft?
- bitcartel 14y ago
  Not at all. With personal taxes, you can disagree over the amount to be paid, you have time to prepare your accounts and get your finances in order, you can even refuse to pay and negotiate a settlement with the taxman. In contrast, Cypriot deposit holders are going to wake up on Tuesday and simply find their money gone.
  - mikeash 14y ago
    A lot of the taxes I pay aren't like that. They get taken out of my paycheck whether I like it or not. I think some of that is strictly-speaking optional and can be paid separately, but not all.

johnpowell 14y ago

Are you on the Greek or Turkey side? A good friend of mine is from the north and I am waiting for him to wake up and get his take on things.

LefterisJP 14y ago
I guess the guy must be Greek since I think this only applies to the Greek side.
alexmic 14y ago
On the non-occupied (Greek) side. I believe this does not affect the occupied (still Greek) side.

tonyedgecombe 14y ago

A bit more direct but not so different from what savers in the US and UK have suffered from quantitive easing in recent years.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
Come on, quantitative easing didn't lead to that much extra inflation, at least in the states.

tomjen3 14y ago

Start a riot. That is the only way this will ever get fixed.

mkr-hn 14y ago
Riot control is very efficient these days.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  As was clear in London, Toronto, Athens...
- Shivetya 14y ago
  Obviously insufficiently large riots, events like this could generate numbers that even make the police wilt. It won't help if they are victims of this loss as well.