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You would think that, but the reality is there is a whole bunch of opportunity right now that is not being seized. Smith could change his life if he made the ch

by Pkeod 14y ago

You would think that, but the reality is there is a whole bunch of opportunity right now that is not being seized. Smith could change his life if he made the choice to. There is not an overflow of game developers, or people writing code worth being inspired about to the point where people who do it are not able to make money enough to live. People think what you are saying and assume it applies currently, and that they have no hope so they have to do the boring work they don't like. It does not apply right now, and it may never actually apply just because of what so many people are ingrained to believe. >think TPS report generators or whatever Value systems are not universal. You could take the most horrifying job you could think of and someone would take pleasure in it. > being allocated No one is ever forcibly allocated. Everyone has a choice to do what they want to do. If the ultimate horror reality of there being too many good games being made and not enough people to buy them all to the point where no one could make a living making games happened then people could still compromise and go down the list of things they genuinely enjoy and do those instead when they find something which can make them money. I don't know enough about Smith, but if he's not doing what he is doing as a temporary stopgap and he believes he is stuck forever doing code he hates then he is absolutely doing it wrong.

jiggy2011 14y ago
You can't have an economy where everybody gets to do their first (or probably 2nd or 3rd or 4th) choice of career unless you are people's desires happen to coincide with market demand. In fact I imagine that the majority of people employed in the workforce can think of a whole list of jobs that they would rather do. Otherwise we would have a huge oversupply of porn stars and rock stars but nobody to collect the trash.
- Pkeod 14y ago
  >In fact Yes, absolutely, and so many people lack willpower to do greater things. That's not because they are not good enough people forever unable to summon the willpower to do it, but simply because they don't know the knowledge necessary. So many people believe so many absurd things which hold them back from what is possible. >You can't have an economy Sure you can. How long before the majority of all manual labor, all service jobs are done by computers and robots? Jobs which humans can do, but don't have to do. All of that uninspiring, boring drudge work which doesn't require any creativity or real problem solving. When those jobs are left we trend toward more of a gift economy where the value you have is what you do for others, what you inspire in them, what you delight them with. Some people already do things which do these things, others collect the trash. People are not forced to pick up your trash, and everyone could decide to refuse to take up that job, and yet people choose to still. Eventually it won't be a choice to put anyone's trash because it will all be automated.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    I doubt that we will see the total loss of all manual drudge work within our lifetimes, things change slowly and the our economy will be structured to incentivise doing work that is not enjoyed for quite some time. It's simply a fact that the most desirable jobs are always the most competitive so you are far more likely to have to a take a job that you would not necessarily choose. The choice is not between taking out the trash and being a rock star, the choice is usually between taking out the trash, working some other low wage job or being unemployed and unable to support yourself financially. So, if you decide to train in some particular area, it is worth thinking about the whole spectrum of jobs that might entail. I would discourage somebody from fixating on a programming career if they were only interested in programming because they wanted to work at facebook for example.
    - Pkeod 14y ago
      >the choice is usually between Or doing your own thing on your own on your own terms following the rules you make up. Hey, stop waiting for people to tell you what to do and create your own opportunity! My alternate future where robots do everything absolutely no one wants to do (I wouldn't believe for a second that there are absolutely no people who love their job picking up trash) is more likely to become reality than your future where it's impossible to make money making games because too many people are making too many amazing games so no one wants to pay for them. >I would discourage somebody from fixating on a programming career if they were only interested in programming because they wanted to work at facebook for example. Yeah, same with wanting to work for a random AAA game company. Unfortunately most people don't appreciate wisdom until they have already failed (reality check when someone is doing work they hate at their "dream job" - if they hate it then they made a mistake), and some people never learn from their mistakes.
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        That's not really how economics works. The games market (for example) isn't capped by how many amazing games people could potentially play. It's capped by the amount of money people have available to spend on games. So that money necessarily has to come from other parts of the economy. So when other parts of the economy suffer there is less money to pay for games. Games are going to be a fairly elastic good, in that as much as I might love video games I'm not going to spend money on them if I'm struggling to afford food and rent. So in a bad market either games have to either become cheaper, or there will be less titles on the market. Thus the demand for game developers either goes down or they will make less money each and the wages can only go so low before they will be forced to defect to other industries because their game salary won't make the rent. Other jobs like trash collection will have a more steady supply/demand because even in a bad economy someone needs to take the crap away. I'm sure there are people who love trash collecting, but they are probably a minority of the workforce vs people who would prefer to get a trash collection salary for watching TV or playing video games. The problem with telling people to "create opportunity" is that starting a business (as I have learned myself) is something that requires more capital than you think it does even if you are frugal. So unless you happen to be independently wealthy you are going to need to take that capital by either working at some other job or persuading an investor that your business will generate them a return. So you have to find something that is the best compromise between "what I like to do" and "what do I think will make money" and usually the second one becomes the dominant factor.

by Pkeod 14y ago

jiggy2011 14y ago

You can't have an economy where everybody gets to do their first (or probably 2nd or 3rd or 4th) choice of career unless you are people's desires happen to coincide with market demand. In fact I imagine that the majority of people employed in the workforce can think of a whole list of jobs that they would rather do. Otherwise we would have a huge oversupply of porn stars and rock stars but nobody to collect the trash.

Pkeod 14y ago
>In fact Yes, absolutely, and so many people lack willpower to do greater things. That's not because they are not good enough people forever unable to summon the willpower to do it, but simply because they don't know the knowledge necessary. So many people believe so many absurd things which hold them back from what is possible. >You can't have an economy Sure you can. How long before the majority of all manual labor, all service jobs are done by computers and robots? Jobs which humans can do, but don't have to do. All of that uninspiring, boring drudge work which doesn't require any creativity or real problem solving. When those jobs are left we trend toward more of a gift economy where the value you have is what you do for others, what you inspire in them, what you delight them with. Some people already do things which do these things, others collect the trash. People are not forced to pick up your trash, and everyone could decide to refuse to take up that job, and yet people choose to still. Eventually it won't be a choice to put anyone's trash because it will all be automated.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  I doubt that we will see the total loss of all manual drudge work within our lifetimes, things change slowly and the our economy will be structured to incentivise doing work that is not enjoyed for quite some time. It's simply a fact that the most desirable jobs are always the most competitive so you are far more likely to have to a take a job that you would not necessarily choose. The choice is not between taking out the trash and being a rock star, the choice is usually between taking out the trash, working some other low wage job or being unemployed and unable to support yourself financially. So, if you decide to train in some particular area, it is worth thinking about the whole spectrum of jobs that might entail. I would discourage somebody from fixating on a programming career if they were only interested in programming because they wanted to work at facebook for example.
  - Pkeod 14y ago
    >the choice is usually between Or doing your own thing on your own on your own terms following the rules you make up. Hey, stop waiting for people to tell you what to do and create your own opportunity! My alternate future where robots do everything absolutely no one wants to do (I wouldn't believe for a second that there are absolutely no people who love their job picking up trash) is more likely to become reality than your future where it's impossible to make money making games because too many people are making too many amazing games so no one wants to pay for them. >I would discourage somebody from fixating on a programming career if they were only interested in programming because they wanted to work at facebook for example. Yeah, same with wanting to work for a random AAA game company. Unfortunately most people don't appreciate wisdom until they have already failed (reality check when someone is doing work they hate at their "dream job" - if they hate it then they made a mistake), and some people never learn from their mistakes.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      That's not really how economics works. The games market (for example) isn't capped by how many amazing games people could potentially play. It's capped by the amount of money people have available to spend on games. So that money necessarily has to come from other parts of the economy. So when other parts of the economy suffer there is less money to pay for games. Games are going to be a fairly elastic good, in that as much as I might love video games I'm not going to spend money on them if I'm struggling to afford food and rent. So in a bad market either games have to either become cheaper, or there will be less titles on the market. Thus the demand for game developers either goes down or they will make less money each and the wages can only go so low before they will be forced to defect to other industries because their game salary won't make the rent. Other jobs like trash collection will have a more steady supply/demand because even in a bad economy someone needs to take the crap away. I'm sure there are people who love trash collecting, but they are probably a minority of the workforce vs people who would prefer to get a trash collection salary for watching TV or playing video games. The problem with telling people to "create opportunity" is that starting a business (as I have learned myself) is something that requires more capital than you think it does even if you are frugal. So unless you happen to be independently wealthy you are going to need to take that capital by either working at some other job or persuading an investor that your business will generate them a return. So you have to find something that is the best compromise between "what I like to do" and "what do I think will make money" and usually the second one becomes the dominant factor.