5 ms·

I'm still a bit disappointed that Apple has yet to add a Wacom layer to their devices. It's so unquestionably better at doing writing, sketching, and note-takin

by 10char 14y ago

I'm still a bit disappointed that Apple has yet to add a Wacom layer to their devices. It's so unquestionably better at doing writing, sketching, and note-taking than crudely smudging your fingers. iPads still fail pretty hard at being useful during math class. I had an old-style swivel tablet (Windows Vista?), and it was a fantastic device to take notes on, invaluable for classwork. OneNote + pen-input really seemed like the future of school computing...but the prices on those machines never came down and the iPad et al took them by storm shortly thereafter.

jrajav 14y ago
> I had an old-style swivel tablet (Windows Vista?), and it was a fantastic device to take notes on, invaluable for classwork. OneNote + pen-input really seemed like the future of school computing...but the prices on those machines never came down and the iPad et al took them by storm shortly thereafter. I had one of these too, an older IBM Thinkpad. The note-taking ability was definitely invaluable. If I were taking college over again right now I would seriously consider a Surface over a Macbook for this reason alone.
shuzchen 14y ago
Yeah, I had a tablet computer back before Apple redefined what tablet meant. It was a Fujitsu machine and OneNote with a wacom pen was definitely a really nice way to take notes in class. However, while I am excited by the machines that are coming out nowadays (surface pro, thinkpad helix to name a few) that will give me both the tablet and laptop experience, I'm dismayed that they're going the way of apple in terms of not giving us access to replace the battery/switch out drives/upgrade RAM on our own. If someone put a door on the backside of a thinkpad helix, I'd buy it for sure.
- vxNsr 14y ago
  Yeah, the issue is space and weight, apple showed that by removing customizability they can significantly reduce the size and weight as well as provide better battery life and nicer looking designs, and when it comes to tablets most people opt for lighter and smaller over replaceable parts.
- DannoHung 14y ago
  I had one too but could never make the note taking process any easier than with just a pen and paper. My best success with tablet note taking is an app I have that records talks and drawing and plays the drawing back along with the audio.
- dublinben 14y ago
  The Thinkpad X230t has a removable battery, Wacom digitizer, and is just as serviceable as any other Thinkpad. I highly recommend it if you're in the market for that kind of device. They've only gotten better as more companies discover the power of tablet PCs.
  - PeterisP 14y ago
    X230t is a nice and powerful device - and it would be a great tablet if it was twice thinner and lighter; currently its weight makes me think thrice before taking it off the desk and using as an actual tablet.
dhruvmittal 14y ago
Apple's been incredibly anti-stylus in the past, if I recall correctly. Didn't Jobs say something along the lines of "if your tablet uses a stylus, you're doing it wrong" at the genesis of the iPad? Although we've seen that isn't necessarily the case, I can't see Apple eating their words in this case. Especially not with the success and visibility of Samsung's Note line.
- dag11 14y ago
  Apple hasn't been anti-stylus, Jobs was. And the stylus he was referring to was the resistive Palm-type stylus, not a pressure-sensitive, digitized pen with side button(s). Jobs has also stated a belief in one thing, and then contradicted it later. Take the original iPhone screen size, for example.
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    > Apple hasn't been anti-stylus, Jobs was. Also, I think he was against stylus UI. Somehow, I don't think he would be pro for the compromised capacitive stylus experience you get on the iPad.
  - FireBeyond 14y ago
    I think the "resistive" thing wasn't Jobs, but Apple fans defending his word as gospel. But yeah, iPhone screen size. "If you expect the iPod to do video, you're mistaken". "You don't need copy and paste if you do the UI right".
- joshschreuder 14y ago
  "It's like we said on the iPad, if you see a stylus, they blew it." http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-or-a-task-manager-they-blew-it/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-... See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YY3MSaUqMg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YY3MSaUqMg
  - wsc981 14y ago
    Of course we had to see this quote into context. Before the iPad was released most tablets pretty much required a styles to be useful. Reason was the used pretty much the same Windows UI as on the desktop (with the small close-boxes on windows for example). Those tablets could pretty much only be used with a stylus. Before Apple released the iPad there pretty much weren't any tablets that could be used completely without a stylus.
omaranto 14y ago
"iPads still fail pretty hard at being useful during math class." I know a couple of people who take notes on their iPads during math talks, they use what Gabe called an ?eraser tip? capacitive touch stylus and an app that shows you your actual size notes above and has a zoned in box at the bottom where you wrote big. I've tried a similar setup on my Nexus 7 and found it pretty comfortable, I imagine on the larger iPad it's even better.
- vxNsr 14y ago
  I imagine the issue is brush lag. because it's not a built-in digitizer it down't work as quickly as the surface, there have been a number of tests corroborating this, Gabe actually alludes to this in his review when he says "There was no brush lag at all and the pressure sensitivity worked perfectly." there is essentially no brush sensitivity with an ipad (though I doubt you really need it in math notes) and from my limited use (of friends ipad+pen setups) you kinda have to force the pen against the screen to ensure it always writes... in a head to head competition the surface would win in note-taking though the ipad might win for the price....
  - jessriedel 14y ago
    I mildly disagree about the brush sensitivity for mathematics. I write a lot of math notes in the margins of academic papers, and single line thickness on a display is annoying and makes the math less readable.
- devcpp 14y ago
  Why would you go through that when paper is much more comfortable to write on?
  - DeepDuh 14y ago
    Isn't it obvious? When you have your stuff stored digitally it (a) takes care of the organizational aspects of note taking and (b) makes notes reusable. The payoff as a student is exam prep: Now you sit at a powerful desktop computer with, say, 2x 21 inch screen estate at your disposal. You have a file explorer, a layout document editor (I use Pages and/or Keynote for this) and a good pdf viewer open (with your exported notes). Now it's a matter of copy & pasting all the information from your notes, the official class notes, literature, etc. onto your layout document which then becomes your summary. This is of course doable by hand but it's a lot more work and it's not as easy to extend it - you can't just make room for new information on a full piece of paper (and summaries, especially the ones you can take to exams, tend to be very full).
nfmangano 14y ago
I'm quite happy with my android based galaxy note, which has replaced my moleskin notebook for taking notes while coding and drafting designs.

by 10char 14y ago

jrajav 14y ago

> I had an old-style swivel tablet (Windows Vista?), and it was a fantastic device to take notes on, invaluable for classwork. OneNote + pen-input really seemed like the future of school computing...but the prices on those machines never came down and the iPad et al took them by storm shortly thereafter. I had one of these too, an older IBM Thinkpad. The note-taking ability was definitely invaluable. If I were taking college over again right now I would seriously consider a Surface over a Macbook for this reason alone.

shuzchen 14y ago

Yeah, I had a tablet computer back before Apple redefined what tablet meant. It was a Fujitsu machine and OneNote with a wacom pen was definitely a really nice way to take notes in class. However, while I am excited by the machines that are coming out nowadays (surface pro, thinkpad helix to name a few) that will give me both the tablet and laptop experience, I'm dismayed that they're going the way of apple in terms of not giving us access to replace the battery/switch out drives/upgrade RAM on our own. If someone put a door on the backside of a thinkpad helix, I'd buy it for sure.

vxNsr 14y ago
Yeah, the issue is space and weight, apple showed that by removing customizability they can significantly reduce the size and weight as well as provide better battery life and nicer looking designs, and when it comes to tablets most people opt for lighter and smaller over replaceable parts.
DannoHung 14y ago
I had one too but could never make the note taking process any easier than with just a pen and paper. My best success with tablet note taking is an app I have that records talks and drawing and plays the drawing back along with the audio.
dublinben 14y ago
The Thinkpad X230t has a removable battery, Wacom digitizer, and is just as serviceable as any other Thinkpad. I highly recommend it if you're in the market for that kind of device. They've only gotten better as more companies discover the power of tablet PCs.
- PeterisP 14y ago
  X230t is a nice and powerful device - and it would be a great tablet if it was twice thinner and lighter; currently its weight makes me think thrice before taking it off the desk and using as an actual tablet.

dhruvmittal 14y ago

Apple's been incredibly anti-stylus in the past, if I recall correctly. Didn't Jobs say something along the lines of "if your tablet uses a stylus, you're doing it wrong" at the genesis of the iPad? Although we've seen that isn't necessarily the case, I can't see Apple eating their words in this case. Especially not with the success and visibility of Samsung's Note line.

dag11 14y ago
Apple hasn't been anti-stylus, Jobs was. And the stylus he was referring to was the resistive Palm-type stylus, not a pressure-sensitive, digitized pen with side button(s). Jobs has also stated a belief in one thing, and then contradicted it later. Take the original iPhone screen size, for example.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  > Apple hasn't been anti-stylus, Jobs was. Also, I think he was against stylus UI. Somehow, I don't think he would be pro for the compromised capacitive stylus experience you get on the iPad.
- FireBeyond 14y ago
  I think the "resistive" thing wasn't Jobs, but Apple fans defending his word as gospel. But yeah, iPhone screen size. "If you expect the iPod to do video, you're mistaken". "You don't need copy and paste if you do the UI right".
joshschreuder 14y ago
"It's like we said on the iPad, if you see a stylus, they blew it." http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-or-a-task-manager-they-blew-it/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-... See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YY3MSaUqMg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YY3MSaUqMg
- wsc981 14y ago
  Of course we had to see this quote into context. Before the iPad was released most tablets pretty much required a styles to be useful. Reason was the used pretty much the same Windows UI as on the desktop (with the small close-boxes on windows for example). Those tablets could pretty much only be used with a stylus. Before Apple released the iPad there pretty much weren't any tablets that could be used completely without a stylus.

omaranto 14y ago

"iPads still fail pretty hard at being useful during math class." I know a couple of people who take notes on their iPads during math talks, they use what Gabe called an ?eraser tip? capacitive touch stylus and an app that shows you your actual size notes above and has a zoned in box at the bottom where you wrote big. I've tried a similar setup on my Nexus 7 and found it pretty comfortable, I imagine on the larger iPad it's even better.

vxNsr 14y ago
I imagine the issue is brush lag. because it's not a built-in digitizer it down't work as quickly as the surface, there have been a number of tests corroborating this, Gabe actually alludes to this in his review when he says "There was no brush lag at all and the pressure sensitivity worked perfectly." there is essentially no brush sensitivity with an ipad (though I doubt you really need it in math notes) and from my limited use (of friends ipad+pen setups) you kinda have to force the pen against the screen to ensure it always writes... in a head to head competition the surface would win in note-taking though the ipad might win for the price....
- jessriedel 14y ago
  I mildly disagree about the brush sensitivity for mathematics. I write a lot of math notes in the margins of academic papers, and single line thickness on a display is annoying and makes the math less readable.
devcpp 14y ago
Why would you go through that when paper is much more comfortable to write on?
- DeepDuh 14y ago
  Isn't it obvious? When you have your stuff stored digitally it (a) takes care of the organizational aspects of note taking and (b) makes notes reusable. The payoff as a student is exam prep: Now you sit at a powerful desktop computer with, say, 2x 21 inch screen estate at your disposal. You have a file explorer, a layout document editor (I use Pages and/or Keynote for this) and a good pdf viewer open (with your exported notes). Now it's a matter of copy & pasting all the information from your notes, the official class notes, literature, etc. onto your layout document which then becomes your summary. This is of course doable by hand but it's a lot more work and it's not as easy to extend it - you can't just make room for new information on a full piece of paper (and summaries, especially the ones you can take to exams, tend to be very full).

nfmangano 14y ago

I'm quite happy with my android based galaxy note, which has replaced my moleskin notebook for taking notes while coding and drafting designs.