5 ms·

I kinda agree, it makes some sense. Its easy in an office environment to forget about remote employees even if they do a lot of work. Out of sight , out of mind

I kinda agree, it makes some sense. Its easy in an office environment to forget about remote employees even if they do a lot of work. Out of sight , out of mind is quite real. It seems to matter less if you don't have a strong team dynamic; such as teams that are pieced together from contractors or work that is done mostly alone.

recycleme 14y ago
One thing that can help with this is to have an open "informal" chatroom for all your employees (or for teams). Now if the person is completely silent, well, that's another issue.
shill 14y ago
>> Out of sight , out of mind is quite real. Also, resentment issues. --- Where's Bob? He should be in this meeting. He's "working" from home today. (Makes quotation mark signs with fingers) Oh, yeah. I forgot that it's Tuesday. Let's get him on the phone. Don't bother. I just called him and he's at his kids swim lesson. Must be nice.
- rhizome 14y ago
  "I guess we should have scheduled this meeting more than 5 minutes in advance."
  - droithomme 14y ago
    "I hate that stupid Bob and his kid's swimming lessons! Bob should be made to be like us and spend 9-5 in useless meetings and develop products for 13 minutes a day rather than be like dumb old Bob and spend the day with family and then work from 7pm to 3am in a solid sprint, coding."
- ja27 14y ago
  Also, productivity issues. Oh, I'll wait until tomorrow to talk to Bob about X, when he's back in the office.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  I am aware of this sort of stuff that goes on, generally though I think of it as a management problem. But let me explain why I think that. So perhaps "Bob" in our example really does have a job which allows him to work as effectively[1] at home as he can at work. Bob should also be aware of the schedule. So when the meeting comes up, Bob should be ready for it. And I've known folks working remotely who where chilling on the conference line waiting for the rest of the meeting to show up. But if either Bob isn't there when he should be, or the manager isn't organized enough to give Bob at least 12hrs notice of a meeting he should be attending, then you've got a management problem. [1] First tip is that a manager needs to have a way of evaluating their teams effectiveness, if they don't then they can't really say if Bob is or is not as effective as others in his position.
  - slurgfest 14y ago
    The meeting in the fictional example isn't necessarily scheduled, so there is no way for him to be aware of it. Also, in the example, it may be that the employees griping about Bob are not even going to try to notify him. I agree with you that this requires an organized manager. Unfortunately, a ton of managers lack this kind of organization.
  - JohnBooty 14y ago
    "But if either Bob isn't there when he should be, or the manager isn't organized enough to give Bob at least 12hrs notice of a meeting he should be attending, then you've got a management problem." I agree with you, except for that part. For most jobs, it's incredibly valuable to have impromptu "hallway" discussions that can't be scheduled in advance, isn't it? Your main point still stands - Bob needs to be available during office hours, even if he's at home.
    - coldtea 14y ago
      >For most jobs, it's incredibly valuable to have impromptu "hallway" discussions that can't be scheduled in advance, isn't it? No, it's not. If your business is so undisciplined and random that it's "valuable" (and even more "incredibly valuable") to have improptu "hallway" discussions, then you're doing it wrong.
- taligent 14y ago
  What a ridiculous argument. You are talking about behavioural issues i.e. not being available for scheduled meetings not something inherent to working remotely. Or to put it more simply: Where's Bob? He should be in this meeting. He's outside having a coffee and cigarette with Jane.
  - xtracto 14y ago
    Definitely, as long as persons performance is measured in their outcomes and not in the number of meetings they attend to or the "butt hours" they make, working from home is as productive as working in the office. I think the sweet spot is when it is a combination of both.
  - shill 14y ago
    I could have noted that Bob manages his time well and completes all of his assigned work. The outcome is still the same. Haters gonna hate.
    - cjfont 14y ago
      Doing good work does not compensate for being allowed to blow off meetings at will, allowing such behavior decreases morale among the group and can lower productivity as a whole.
- tg3 14y ago
  The problem with Bob in this example is that he's not a good worker, and doesn't keep his commitments, not that he's working remotely.
- JohnBooty 14y ago
  "Don't bother. I just called him and he's at his kids swim lesson" There are issues with telecommuting that are difficult to overcome, but this one is ridiculously simple. The solution (well, a solution) is to have business hours during which everybody needs to be available. I have an arrangement like that with my employer - between 9 and 5, even if I'm working at home, my manager needs to be able to pick up his phone and have me be instantly available. At first, he was a little doubtful, but he soon realized that he can actually get a hold of me more quickly this way when compared with walking across the building from his office to mine. (And no, he doesn't abuse this... haha) :) It gets slightly trickier when people are in different time zones, but nothing that can't be overcome. People need predictable office hours; there can't ever be a "Bob's at his kids' swim practice" moment. Barring emergency, of course.
- codeonfire 14y ago
  This is too funny, do I work with you? You forgot the part about when 'Bob' brings his kids into the office when anybody complains.

recycleme 14y ago

One thing that can help with this is to have an open "informal" chatroom for all your employees (or for teams). Now if the person is completely silent, well, that's another issue.

shill 14y ago

>> Out of sight , out of mind is quite real. Also, resentment issues. --- Where's Bob? He should be in this meeting. He's "working" from home today. (Makes quotation mark signs with fingers) Oh, yeah. I forgot that it's Tuesday. Let's get him on the phone. Don't bother. I just called him and he's at his kids swim lesson. Must be nice.

rhizome 14y ago
"I guess we should have scheduled this meeting more than 5 minutes in advance."
- droithomme 14y ago
  "I hate that stupid Bob and his kid's swimming lessons! Bob should be made to be like us and spend 9-5 in useless meetings and develop products for 13 minutes a day rather than be like dumb old Bob and spend the day with family and then work from 7pm to 3am in a solid sprint, coding."
ja27 14y ago
Also, productivity issues. Oh, I'll wait until tomorrow to talk to Bob about X, when he's back in the office.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
I am aware of this sort of stuff that goes on, generally though I think of it as a management problem. But let me explain why I think that. So perhaps "Bob" in our example really does have a job which allows him to work as effectively[1] at home as he can at work. Bob should also be aware of the schedule. So when the meeting comes up, Bob should be ready for it. And I've known folks working remotely who where chilling on the conference line waiting for the rest of the meeting to show up. But if either Bob isn't there when he should be, or the manager isn't organized enough to give Bob at least 12hrs notice of a meeting he should be attending, then you've got a management problem. [1] First tip is that a manager needs to have a way of evaluating their teams effectiveness, if they don't then they can't really say if Bob is or is not as effective as others in his position.
- slurgfest 14y ago
  The meeting in the fictional example isn't necessarily scheduled, so there is no way for him to be aware of it. Also, in the example, it may be that the employees griping about Bob are not even going to try to notify him. I agree with you that this requires an organized manager. Unfortunately, a ton of managers lack this kind of organization.
- JohnBooty 14y ago
  "But if either Bob isn't there when he should be, or the manager isn't organized enough to give Bob at least 12hrs notice of a meeting he should be attending, then you've got a management problem." I agree with you, except for that part. For most jobs, it's incredibly valuable to have impromptu "hallway" discussions that can't be scheduled in advance, isn't it? Your main point still stands - Bob needs to be available during office hours, even if he's at home.
  - coldtea 14y ago
    >For most jobs, it's incredibly valuable to have impromptu "hallway" discussions that can't be scheduled in advance, isn't it? No, it's not. If your business is so undisciplined and random that it's "valuable" (and even more "incredibly valuable") to have improptu "hallway" discussions, then you're doing it wrong.
taligent 14y ago
What a ridiculous argument. You are talking about behavioural issues i.e. not being available for scheduled meetings not something inherent to working remotely. Or to put it more simply: Where's Bob? He should be in this meeting. He's outside having a coffee and cigarette with Jane.
- xtracto 14y ago
  Definitely, as long as persons performance is measured in their outcomes and not in the number of meetings they attend to or the "butt hours" they make, working from home is as productive as working in the office. I think the sweet spot is when it is a combination of both.
- shill 14y ago
  I could have noted that Bob manages his time well and completes all of his assigned work. The outcome is still the same. Haters gonna hate.
  - cjfont 14y ago
    Doing good work does not compensate for being allowed to blow off meetings at will, allowing such behavior decreases morale among the group and can lower productivity as a whole.
tg3 14y ago
The problem with Bob in this example is that he's not a good worker, and doesn't keep his commitments, not that he's working remotely.
JohnBooty 14y ago
"Don't bother. I just called him and he's at his kids swim lesson" There are issues with telecommuting that are difficult to overcome, but this one is ridiculously simple. The solution (well, a solution) is to have business hours during which everybody needs to be available. I have an arrangement like that with my employer - between 9 and 5, even if I'm working at home, my manager needs to be able to pick up his phone and have me be instantly available. At first, he was a little doubtful, but he soon realized that he can actually get a hold of me more quickly this way when compared with walking across the building from his office to mine. (And no, he doesn't abuse this... haha) :) It gets slightly trickier when people are in different time zones, but nothing that can't be overcome. People need predictable office hours; there can't ever be a "Bob's at his kids' swim practice" moment. Barring emergency, of course.
codeonfire 14y ago
This is too funny, do I work with you? You forgot the part about when 'Bob' brings his kids into the office when anybody complains.