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I don't know you or your background but I'm going to guess you may not be part of that younger generation (late high school, early college years) who was litera

I don't know you or your background but I'm going to guess you may not be part of that younger generation (late high school, early college years) who was literally born with a computer in their crib and came into their teen years with with a smart phone in their hand. I'm often reminded of the divide between them and my generation (born in the mid 70's) when I visit friends who have children that age, or even in public places where they hang out in groups. I virtually see each of them holding a smart phone, maybe not always using it but definitely at the ready no matter what the circumstances (middle of a conversation with a human being, shopping for clothes, driving, etc...). Even if they don't look at it for more a moment as you say, it's always present and slowly but surely encroaching on real human interactions. That generation will be entering the world of grown-ups very soon and your argument will rapidly be invalidated.

mkr-hn 14y ago
It's hard to predict the course of an upcoming generation based on what they experience now. I've never been without a TV in my own room. When I was growing up, I read frantic posts on Usenet about how people my age were glued to the TV and video games, and how that would ruin social interaction. It wasn't long before people said the same about the web, instant messaging, early social networks, and everything since. I seem to get along with people without issue despite growing up immersed in these society killers. Why are smartphones a special case?
- xj9 14y ago
  Its because the new thing is always a special case. Its natural for some people to think that the old way of doing things is the only good way and that anything new that could displace or alter that way of doing things would just ruin it.
sliverstorm 14y ago
I am hovering between the generations in this regard, and I definitely see (or think I see) a strong gradient. I know vanishingly few adults over thirty who spend life buried in tech- even the tech-savvy ones. Then as you work backwards in age down to high school, you see progressively more and more absorption into technology. Most everyone I know along the "scale" is sharp enough to use whatever the latest tech is. The different is not savvy, it is usage patterns. /anecdote
kbenson 14y ago
When a mobile network terminal (which is really what these phones are) is seen as a logical extension of you brain (google is always at hand, stored notes, etc) and perceptions (a text message can be likened to a friendly wave from across the room, you get to choose your own interaction level from that point), it's natural to have it always at hand, and ready. If others perceive you to be inattentive because you check your phone, that's old-world thinking. I'm sure many people have attention problems, and may not apply the correct amount of attention to local stimuli, but then again, maybe they just don't find what happening immediately around them all that interesting at the time. A phone can enhance a conversation. One participant can take a few moments to research something that was just discussed while listening in on further conversation, and then re-enter the active portion of the conversation with new, and useful, information. Is short, we are in a transition period. There's learning to be done about the best way to deal with all the new capabilities we have (because that's what they are, enhancements to us), as well as social norms that need to adapt.
socillion 14y ago
My personal experience has been similar. When a group conversation peters out, its easy for a lot of people to pull out their phones instead of continuing the conversation - and when one person pulls it out, everyone else does as well. It definitely seems more noticeable among the ~17-18 age group than ~20-25 (20 here but I had an odd childhood and behavior patterns like this were explicitly discouraged.) Good news is that not everyone does this.
silverbax88 14y ago
As a tech guy in his forties, I find these arguments hilarious - especially when my own generation had the same things said about television ("They won't know personal contact or relationships!") , video games...every new thing is the end of human society as we know it. Until it isn't. I mean, honestly, stop being so myopic. There were people who decried the STEAM ENGINE. There were people - sometimes, legitimate journalists and "thought leaders" who would write articles and essays about ELECTRICITY. And RADIO. And the PHONE. And the TELEGRAPH. And when the telegraph began to become obsolete, there was wailing and and gnashing of teeth. When the 'horseless carraige' was introduced, there were op-ed pieces written stating it was a sad state that America might not use horsepower in the future. Yeah, society is going to change. It's always changing. People adapt. Some things we lose, some things we gain. It's only "the way it should be" to you because it's the world you know.
- visarga 14y ago
  What about the introduction of the printing press? After that moment, the amount of information available to people grew by a million times. There are abuses with reading books, too - remember the stereotypical novel reader that has no social life, preferring his story characters instead? Yet, even with such exaggerations, books do not destroy our life. Instead, books have been the main means of storing and transmitting culture in the last 500 years. We'll adapt, we'll find social norms. There will be do's and don'ts. We will have etiquette. But now we are still in the infancy of this age. It was year 2000 when I got a digital camera, and I've shot 50K+ pictures a year since. This is a sea change in remembering your life. The smart phones came 5 years later. Now I can't imagine life without it. But we'll assimilate this phase too.
- vacri 14y ago
  None of the things you've mentioned interrupts the social interactions when you're actually out with someone. I do agree that the only constant is change, but also, the always-on internet is truly something new for us.
  - silverbax88 14y ago
    Television interrupts the social interactions, if there is one nearby. As do newspapers, books, people walking by...

mkr-hn 14y ago

It's hard to predict the course of an upcoming generation based on what they experience now. I've never been without a TV in my own room. When I was growing up, I read frantic posts on Usenet about how people my age were glued to the TV and video games, and how that would ruin social interaction. It wasn't long before people said the same about the web, instant messaging, early social networks, and everything since. I seem to get along with people without issue despite growing up immersed in these society killers. Why are smartphones a special case?

xj9 14y ago
Its because the new thing is always a special case. Its natural for some people to think that the old way of doing things is the only good way and that anything new that could displace or alter that way of doing things would just ruin it.

sliverstorm 14y ago

I am hovering between the generations in this regard, and I definitely see (or think I see) a strong gradient. I know vanishingly few adults over thirty who spend life buried in tech- even the tech-savvy ones. Then as you work backwards in age down to high school, you see progressively more and more absorption into technology. Most everyone I know along the "scale" is sharp enough to use whatever the latest tech is. The different is not savvy, it is usage patterns. /anecdote

kbenson 14y ago

When a mobile network terminal (which is really what these phones are) is seen as a logical extension of you brain (google is always at hand, stored notes, etc) and perceptions (a text message can be likened to a friendly wave from across the room, you get to choose your own interaction level from that point), it's natural to have it always at hand, and ready. If others perceive you to be inattentive because you check your phone, that's old-world thinking. I'm sure many people have attention problems, and may not apply the correct amount of attention to local stimuli, but then again, maybe they just don't find what happening immediately around them all that interesting at the time. A phone can enhance a conversation. One participant can take a few moments to research something that was just discussed while listening in on further conversation, and then re-enter the active portion of the conversation with new, and useful, information. Is short, we are in a transition period. There's learning to be done about the best way to deal with all the new capabilities we have (because that's what they are, enhancements to us), as well as social norms that need to adapt.

socillion 14y ago

My personal experience has been similar. When a group conversation peters out, its easy for a lot of people to pull out their phones instead of continuing the conversation - and when one person pulls it out, everyone else does as well. It definitely seems more noticeable among the ~17-18 age group than ~20-25 (20 here but I had an odd childhood and behavior patterns like this were explicitly discouraged.) Good news is that not everyone does this.

silverbax88 14y ago

As a tech guy in his forties, I find these arguments hilarious - especially when my own generation had the same things said about television ("They won't know personal contact or relationships!") , video games...every new thing is the end of human society as we know it. Until it isn't. I mean, honestly, stop being so myopic. There were people who decried the STEAM ENGINE. There were people - sometimes, legitimate journalists and "thought leaders" who would write articles and essays about ELECTRICITY. And RADIO. And the PHONE. And the TELEGRAPH. And when the telegraph began to become obsolete, there was wailing and and gnashing of teeth. When the 'horseless carraige' was introduced, there were op-ed pieces written stating it was a sad state that America might not use horsepower in the future. Yeah, society is going to change. It's always changing. People adapt. Some things we lose, some things we gain. It's only "the way it should be" to you because it's the world you know.

visarga 14y ago
What about the introduction of the printing press? After that moment, the amount of information available to people grew by a million times. There are abuses with reading books, too - remember the stereotypical novel reader that has no social life, preferring his story characters instead? Yet, even with such exaggerations, books do not destroy our life. Instead, books have been the main means of storing and transmitting culture in the last 500 years. We'll adapt, we'll find social norms. There will be do's and don'ts. We will have etiquette. But now we are still in the infancy of this age. It was year 2000 when I got a digital camera, and I've shot 50K+ pictures a year since. This is a sea change in remembering your life. The smart phones came 5 years later. Now I can't imagine life without it. But we'll assimilate this phase too.
vacri 14y ago
None of the things you've mentioned interrupts the social interactions when you're actually out with someone. I do agree that the only constant is change, but also, the always-on internet is truly something new for us.
- silverbax88 14y ago
  Television interrupts the social interactions, if there is one nearby. As do newspapers, books, people walking by...