7 ms·

Android Play Store Privacy

52 points by EricButler 14y ago

picklefish 14y ago
Having a developer calculate tax seems odd. Does this mean every single developer who puts a paid app on android store needs to figure out the intricacies of digital download tax for every single state / country? Sure big companies can hire someone to do it but that seems excessive for an individual developer.
- grecy 14y ago
  Makes that 30% Apple take seem a little more reasonable, doesn't it?
  - chronomex 14y ago
    Except that Google takes the same cut ...
- trotsky 14y ago
  At least in the US you're not responsible for collecting sales tax for a location you don't do business in, and i'm pretty sure there are minimum thresholds or exceptions to prevent people from having to collect sales tax on yard sales or fruit stands, for example.
  - saurik 14y ago
    However, if you do business internationally, this is not as clear: you do not have any a priori right to take money from citizens of other countries for your products or services; as a specific example, if you have customers in the EU (and you meet the various thresholds in any of the member countries) you must register for VAT (probably through the VAT on e-Services program designed for streamlined registration of overseas companies selling digital products). Every quarter, for example, I have to remit collected VAT for every EU country through HMRC (in pounds sterling, which is really quite irritating). (Even domestically, the rules regarding whether you are doing business in a state are dependent on the state. If you travel at all, have any contractors, work with any other companies, or even simply ship goods around, it can be very confusing to determine in what jurisdictions you suddenly are liable for collecting either sales or seller's use tax. I ran into this personally while trying to figure out "am I doing business in Michigan, a state that imposes a 6% tax that includes digital goods?": the Michigan Treasury didn't want to commit to an answer, so I was going back/forth with accountants and lawyers for quite a while.)
- pat2man 14y ago
  You are solely responsible for specifying your own tax rates and for updating them if tax rates for your location change. Google won’t apply taxes to your orders if you don’t provide any tax information in the Merchant Center or via the Checkout API, so be sure to keep this information up-to-date. For tax assistance, please consult with a qualified tax professional.
yanw 14y ago
It's as it should be: http://marketingland.com/why-im-glad-google-play-gives-developers-customer-data-33431 http://marketingland.com/why-im-glad-google-play-gives-devel...
- kgarten 14y ago
  "We can better service them by being able to refund them, look up order status issues, and potentially contact them with issues they may have." Order status issues for apps? Giving developers the option of contacting users regarding issues is alright ... giving every developer of every app I installed my private phone number is NOT (in my personal opinion).
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - fpgeek 14y ago
    Order status issues for apps? How about: - the download failed, did I actually purchase it? - has my refund been processed (note that the current setup lets developers have refund policies that are more generous than the Play Store's 15 minutes)? - did transferring my purchase from another app store work (which often comes up if a developer leaves the other store)? - why isn't my in-app upgrade working (could be a code bug, could be a processing bug on the in-app purchase, etc.)? - ...
  - jc4p 14y ago
    >Giving developers the option of contacting users regarding issues is alright ... giving every developer of every app I installed my private phone number is NOT (in my personal opinion). That's... that's not what it is. It's every app you've PAID for. I would argue that giving people you've given money to direct access to be able to fix issues for you if they come up is a benefit.
    - Evbn 14y ago
      It isn't giving, it is taking. That is the difference.
spot 14y ago
I don't see the address or phone number. I do see zip code and email.
warrenmiller 14y ago
Same thing happens if I sell something in a real or internet shop. Why is this so surprising?
- Samuel_Michon 14y ago
  When you buy a TV at Best Buy or online at Amazon, the shop doesn't send your personal information to the TV's manufacturer. One of the reasons I prefer to buy my software through the Mac App Store instead of at some random developer's website is because I want to limit the number of businesses that have my personal information. Large companies are bad at keeping customer information safe, but I don't even want to think about how individual developers store it.
  - fpgeek 14y ago
    If you buy a TV via Amazon Marketplace, the seller of the TV certainly gets similar personal information (otherwise they can't ship it).
    - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
      That's a valid point. The Mac App Store doesn't keep inventory. They don't first buy the apps wholesale and then resell them. They just list the apps, just like Amazon does for physical products in the Amazon Marketplace. I do have to say I don't like to buy from the Amazon Marketpkace, I prefer to buy fromm Amazon directly (and that was the scenario I was referring to.)
- ajross 14y ago
  Exactly. Twenty years ago, the idea that someone from whom you purchased a product might (gasp) know who you are would have been obvious. Even once the web arrived we all dutifully typed our credit card and contact info into every online purchase, and no one cared. Now all of a sudden it's "revealed" that Android app vendors have the same info (broadly -- they don't get credit card numbers) and it's a "privacy" concern? That said... maybe there's something to this. Apple has shown that a different model can work, that isolates the buyer from the seller. Is that a good or bad thing? I think there's an interesting discussion to be had here, but this "privacy" nonsense has to stop.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
tszming 14y ago
As a developer, I can confirm this. There are some records with only the zip/country & fake email (xxx@checkout.google.com) But there are definitely some records with full name, full address, phone, e.g. (format only) John Doe 101/A, 2-14, Queen Road , Hong Kong . HONG KONG ISLAND HONG KONG 1234 5678 johndoe@example.com
damian2000 14y ago
Another point which backs up something I read once ... Google is run by engineers, Apple is run by designers, Microsoft is run by MBAs.
- Evbn 14y ago
  Google isn't run by engineers anymore.

52 points by EricButler 14y ago

Having a developer calculate tax seems odd. Does this mean every single developer who puts a paid app on android store needs to figure out the intricacies of digital download tax for every single state / country? Sure big companies can hire someone to do it but that seems excessive for an individual developer.

grecy 14y ago
Makes that 30% Apple take seem a little more reasonable, doesn't it?
- chronomex 14y ago
  Except that Google takes the same cut ...
trotsky 14y ago
At least in the US you're not responsible for collecting sales tax for a location you don't do business in, and i'm pretty sure there are minimum thresholds or exceptions to prevent people from having to collect sales tax on yard sales or fruit stands, for example.
- saurik 14y ago
  However, if you do business internationally, this is not as clear: you do not have any a priori right to take money from citizens of other countries for your products or services; as a specific example, if you have customers in the EU (and you meet the various thresholds in any of the member countries) you must register for VAT (probably through the VAT on e-Services program designed for streamlined registration of overseas companies selling digital products). Every quarter, for example, I have to remit collected VAT for every EU country through HMRC (in pounds sterling, which is really quite irritating). (Even domestically, the rules regarding whether you are doing business in a state are dependent on the state. If you travel at all, have any contractors, work with any other companies, or even simply ship goods around, it can be very confusing to determine in what jurisdictions you suddenly are liable for collecting either sales or seller's use tax. I ran into this personally while trying to figure out "am I doing business in Michigan, a state that imposes a 6% tax that includes digital goods?": the Michigan Treasury didn't want to commit to an answer, so I was going back/forth with accountants and lawyers for quite a while.)
pat2man 14y ago
You are solely responsible for specifying your own tax rates and for updating them if tax rates for your location change. Google won’t apply taxes to your orders if you don’t provide any tax information in the Merchant Center or via the Checkout API, so be sure to keep this information up-to-date. For tax assistance, please consult with a qualified tax professional.

yanw 14y ago

It's as it should be: http://marketingland.com/why-im-glad-google-play-gives-developers-customer-data-33431 http://marketingland.com/why-im-glad-google-play-gives-devel...

kgarten 14y ago
"We can better service them by being able to refund them, look up order status issues, and potentially contact them with issues they may have." Order status issues for apps? Giving developers the option of contacting users regarding issues is alright ... giving every developer of every app I installed my private phone number is NOT (in my personal opinion).
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- fpgeek 14y ago
  Order status issues for apps? How about: - the download failed, did I actually purchase it? - has my refund been processed (note that the current setup lets developers have refund policies that are more generous than the Play Store's 15 minutes)? - did transferring my purchase from another app store work (which often comes up if a developer leaves the other store)? - why isn't my in-app upgrade working (could be a code bug, could be a processing bug on the in-app purchase, etc.)? - ...
- jc4p 14y ago
  >Giving developers the option of contacting users regarding issues is alright ... giving every developer of every app I installed my private phone number is NOT (in my personal opinion). That's... that's not what it is. It's every app you've PAID for. I would argue that giving people you've given money to direct access to be able to fix issues for you if they come up is a benefit.
  - Evbn 14y ago
    It isn't giving, it is taking. That is the difference.

spot 14y ago

I don't see the address or phone number. I do see zip code and email.

warrenmiller 14y ago

Same thing happens if I sell something in a real or internet shop. Why is this so surprising?

Samuel_Michon 14y ago
When you buy a TV at Best Buy or online at Amazon, the shop doesn't send your personal information to the TV's manufacturer. One of the reasons I prefer to buy my software through the Mac App Store instead of at some random developer's website is because I want to limit the number of businesses that have my personal information. Large companies are bad at keeping customer information safe, but I don't even want to think about how individual developers store it.
- fpgeek 14y ago
  If you buy a TV via Amazon Marketplace, the seller of the TV certainly gets similar personal information (otherwise they can't ship it).
  - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
    That's a valid point. The Mac App Store doesn't keep inventory. They don't first buy the apps wholesale and then resell them. They just list the apps, just like Amazon does for physical products in the Amazon Marketplace. I do have to say I don't like to buy from the Amazon Marketpkace, I prefer to buy fromm Amazon directly (and that was the scenario I was referring to.)
ajross 14y ago
Exactly. Twenty years ago, the idea that someone from whom you purchased a product might (gasp) know who you are would have been obvious. Even once the web arrived we all dutifully typed our credit card and contact info into every online purchase, and no one cared. Now all of a sudden it's "revealed" that Android app vendors have the same info (broadly -- they don't get credit card numbers) and it's a "privacy" concern? That said... maybe there's something to this. Apple has shown that a different model can work, that isolates the buyer from the seller. Is that a good or bad thing? I think there's an interesting discussion to be had here, but this "privacy" nonsense has to stop.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

tszming 14y ago

As a developer, I can confirm this. There are some records with only the zip/country & fake email (xxx@checkout.google.com) But there are definitely some records with full name, full address, phone, e.g. (format only) John Doe 101/A, 2-14, Queen Road , Hong Kong . HONG KONG ISLAND HONG KONG 1234 5678 johndoe@example.com

damian2000 14y ago

Another point which backs up something I read once ... Google is run by engineers, Apple is run by designers, Microsoft is run by MBAs.

Evbn 14y ago
Google isn't run by engineers anymore.