13 ms·

My Valuable, Cheap College Degree

69 points by kestakhri 14y ago

drcube 14y ago
Hasn't the largest increase in tuition costs come from paying so many new administrators? Let's start there before we start cutting lectures and class time.
- muzz 14y ago
  Would love to see any hard data on what the actual new administrators are, and how much the additional costs are. Raw numbers, not the % increase compared to some year in the past.
CleanedStar 14y ago
"I disagree. I possess a 10K-B.A., which I got way back in 1994. And it was the most important intellectual and career move I ever made." And this is why your major accomplishments are being a professor at a third-tier school like Syracuse, and being a commissar and hack for a think tank funded by the Olins, ExxonMobil etc. What a surprise such a shlocky job is done by someone who could barely make it through college and got a crap degree.
- RobotCaleb 14y ago
  Who are you to attack this man's accomplishments and demean his work?
- cantastoria 14y ago
  Your elitism is breathtaking. What have you done with your life that makes you so special?
- ucee054 14y ago
  Yes, it's a bit of a misrepresentation that he refers to AEI as "I am now the president of a Washington research organization."
codexon 14y ago
I thought this comment there summed up the entire article succinctly. A contrarian comment based on the interestingly paradoxical fact that our sub-20K PhD found his path to happiness (if, indeed, that's what heading the American Enterprise Institute represents for him) by recognizing he might best pursue such a goal by becoming a tenured professor at a $45K per BA year institution. I remain unimpressed by today's tutorial
- randallsquared 14y ago
  So, we can sum up that comment as "It's not what you learn, it's how much it cost for your degree that matters in life"?
  - codexon 14y ago
    The way I took it is that his degree was valuable to him because he participated in the overpriced college market, the very thing he is criticizing.
up_and_up 14y ago
I have a ~10K degree from UC Berkeley that I got in 2004. Spent 2 years at Cabrillo College, in Aptos, CA - Tuition Cost: ~$1000 Spent 18 months at UC Berkeley, taking 16-21 credits per semester, including a summer quarter, after a small scholarship ($4000) - Tuition Cost: $10,000 So $11,000 My strategy: Go to community college for 2 years, do well, get the Berkeley Alumni Scholarship ($4000/year), take lots of classes, finish early. I have $0.0 debt. Due to tuition increases not sure you could replicate this, but I bet you could get close. For those who get snobbish re community college, it really depends where you go! At Cabrillo, a lot of my profs had Phd's from reputable schools and the students were pretty sharp. You get great access to profs in the small classes. Once I got to Berkeley I had no problem walking right up to the profs there, was not intimidated. Plus you get a better perspective of the world in Community College sitting next to the pregnant single mom, the retiree, the recent immigrant and the lawyer turned Plummer in your Philosophy of Mind class! Interesting discussion!
- Legion 14y ago
  Plus, Aptos and Capitola are crazy beautiful. :)
- joshAg 14y ago
  You can get pretty close. I graduated in 2011 after 4 years at Cal and only had ~$26k in debt.
- smokey_the_bear 14y ago
  What did you study? My father did the same thing as you, in the 1960s, and still raves about how great the community college was - it was small enough that he could do whatever he wanted in the chem lab because the prof knew him. I've looked at the catalogues for community colleges though, and I don't see how I could have gone there without drastically changing the amount of material that was covered my degree. They just don't offer the math and engineering classes that I took in my first two years.
- r00fus 14y ago
  That was my strategy as well. You can live on a pretty shoestring budget going to community college if you live with family or friends nearby. What you don't get is the access to all the university culture (frats/dorms/connections), or at least that's what I've been told.
insaneirish 14y ago
The moral of the article's story, and my experience interviewing lots of folks, is that the quality of the student's desire to learn supersedes the perceived quality of the institution. Funny enough, I took "C Programming" at Thomas Edison (mentioned in the article) the summer between 7th and 8th grades. I learned at home and took proctored exams. 5 years later, Rutgers honored the 3 credits (though I also had AP credit) for an intro programming class.
pm90 14y ago
May I propose an alternate solution? Get your degree from India. Most of the good universities have special considerations/ admission procedures for foreign students. There will be plenty of differences from a University in the West; but for those with a sense for adventure, it might still be worthwhile
- up_and_up 14y ago
  Not a bad idea. What are the reputable schools a westerner could get into?
  - pm90 14y ago
    For engineering, the best university is IIT(govt. funded) and BITS Pilani (private). To get into them, you must take their entrance examinations (which are very competitive). The National Institute of Technologies are a group of universities that give direct admissions to foreign nationals [0]. But be careful, only a few highly reputed ones might give a competitive education. There are other universities like ManipalTech[1], VIT[2] which also give direct admissions to foreign nationals. [0] https://www.dasanit.org/ https://www.dasanit.org/ [1] http://www.manipal.edu/INTERNATIONALSTUDENTS/UNDERGRADUATE/Pages/Categories.aspx http://www.manipal.edu/INTERNATIONALSTUDENTS/UNDERGRADUATE/P... [2]http://www.vit.ac.in/ http://www.vit.ac.in/
- geoka9 14y ago
  It looks like for programming jobs it really doesn't matter where your degree is from. So this maybe a valid idea (in fact any university will do as long as you can speak the language they use to teach). But for other occupations (doctors?) - I'm not so sure. Probably a Canadian medical school graduate will be able to get a residency position in the US, but a graduate from India?
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    Actually, you're completely wrong. There are a ton of foreign medical graduates from India in the US. If you have ever seen an ethnically Indian doctor, there's a good chance he/she went to medical school in India.
ctdonath 14y ago
My wife & I have five degrees between us (an Ivy League included), total cost under $100k. The amount of tuition money out there waiting for recipients is staggering, if you'll just look for it, study hard, and be flexible. And do realize there is a difference between education and certification. If you're paying list price for an education, you're doing it wrong.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- codexon 14y ago
  Be a minority or the top 1% in your class of people likely depending on the same thing?
  - muzz 14y ago
    If you are a student from a family with median income or below, Harvard and Stanford waive tuition (and Stanford will cover room and board too). http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/21/us-education-stanford-tuition-idUSN2041220220080221 http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/21/us-education-stanf...
    - codexon 14y ago
      I think everyone is aware of that by now. Someone brings it up every time tuition comes up. Given their acceptance rates, this is not an option for even a majority of HN readers.
  - ctdonath 14y ago
    I'm neither.
    - codexon 14y ago
      Let me guess what else. - Military or government service. - Join a company that will pay you to get the degree (likely only from a company that requires a top degree) - A field of study that no one ever chooses. If not feel free to share some of that information.
jstalin 14y ago
Where can one get a 5K MA?
- jackpirate 14y ago
  Apply as a phd so you can TA the whole time, then drop out with the masters. You'll get paid for your MA.
guylhem 14y ago
Yes, there ma be an education bubble out there, but it's easy to critize education when you already have gotten it and the privileges it entails - such as understand how it potentially is a bubble! But even with that knowledge of the high risks of a bubble, and even if one tries to forget the many studies proving education is a worthwhile investment (for the increased salary benefits one gets - cf signalling theory) how munch do you think the capacity to learn and create is worth? How valuable is it to you? Some people do not need any formal education to get that. But many do. And even those who don't "need" a formal education can take great advantage of it - for ex finding some golden insights with a marketable value, formalizing their knowledge, or even better- learning how to create new knowledge (PhD) There is a growing anti intellectual bias - even here on HN. Whatever, but least leave aside your opinion and consider the facts. (conflict of interest warning - I made an "investment" in my education, and therefore I could have a biased opinion)
- mdasen 14y ago
  I don't think people are criticizing education. I think that a lot of people who have gotten degrees are looking back on their college education and wondering about the cost - particularly if they graduated with a degree that isn't leading into a comfortable career. Universities in America are very expensive (even when you compensate for state aid). I remember getting a mailing from Amherst College back when I was applying to schools a decade ago noting that while the sticker price was in the mid-$30,000 range, the college was actually spending tens of thousands more than that price per student. I think it was to tell people, "even if you're paying full price, you're still getting a good deal." What stuck with me was the amount being spent. Looking at many other countries with respectable third level education systems, they're spending less. According to the OECD, the United States spends $29,201 per student while the European Union spends $12,967. Over four years, that amounts to $64,936. If you consider that in many countries Arts Degrees are 3-year programs, the savings becomes $77,903. So, even if one thinks education is wonderful, one can question "why is it becoming so expensive? what are American universities doing wrong?" Similarly, there has been (although it's going away a bit) this idea that "the school matters more than the program" or "it's the Bachelor's degree that you need, not any specific skill." Being against those trains of thought isn't anti-intellectual. If anything, it's pro-intellectual. It's saying that you should learn good things rather than trying to take the easiest course at the place with the best reputation. Still, I think there are people questioning their undergraduate expense if they entered without much of a plan (college was simply "the next thing people of my status do"). Many of my friends have had to spend a year taking additional classes to prepare for a graduate program their undergrad didn't prepare them for - because they didn't know what they wanted to do at the time. Here on HN, we typically dislike things like power imbalances, high prices, places that seem to have a lock on the market, etc. Universities can exemplify those things. Many people need formal education and universities do have valuable things to offer. However, I think a reasonable person who has been around universities will have seen a lot of money spent on things simply because the money is around; because students will pay it. That's bad. To make an analogy: when people criticize certain ISPs, they aren't saying that they don't find the internet valuable. When it comes down to it, I think most of us would part with $150+ for our internet connection. However, we don't evaluate price simply in terms of what we get out of it, but also with an eye toward whether the service is being offered at an efficient, fair price. If my ISP forced me to pay $150/mo, I probably would. The internet has high value to me. But, in that case, I would complain. Even if my ISP's margins were low (or even not-for-profit), I would question the efficiency with which they were provisioning my service; I would question whether they were wise with their spending; I would question whether they had a staffing mixture appropriate for their business; I would question whether their leadership knew what they needed to do in order to provide good service at an affordable price. I would question this because I would look at other, similar countries where people were being provisioned internet of substantially similar quality for substantially less money.
mitchi 14y ago
To me it seems really silly to spend 100K to learn things that are only at a Bachelor's level. People who did their bachelor's in other countries like France or Sweden, for free, are learning the same things from scientific papers right now. Even if the Bachelor degree is harder or better, there is no difference in the end because it's only Bachelor level stuff. Harvard or MIT cannot make you into a powerful machine. The most important thing to achieve a big scientific career is to be born with the genetics and the willpower to work. It seems that going to Harvard or Stanford takes care of the latter part since you are betting your life on a few years of your life and you are taking extraordinary debt to do so. If you're getting it all for free, you probably won't work as hard right? But after a few years, if you go to the master degree or the doctorate, what difference does it make? None.
- zanny 14y ago
  The money isn't for the knowledge, its for the credentials. Having a degree from a perceived "top" school is being oversold as extremely valuable when job hunting. Actual skillset is irrelevant. What ends up being really relevant is that a lot of the big gun companies target schools, and recruit right from the graduating crop in person, sometimes with barely an interview as long as the GPA is reasonable. That has value bordering on that 100k price tag.
- muzz 14y ago
  Numbers like that are often red herrings. Harvard undergraduates have an average student loan debt of $11,780 [1]. While it's not $10k, and it is debt, it's really not that much higher. [1] http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/10/18/graduates-small-colleges-average-student-loan-debt/fKywfPz7llnt0Up3K0X2qJ/story.html http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/10/18/graduates-small-...
anshumans 14y ago
From an economics standpoint, I'm curious why education has been skyrocketing in price? Is it primarily due to demand, and universities are just jacking up tuition because they can? Or are there other factors at play?
- kestakhri 14y ago
  I think you'll enjoy this fascinating lecture and Q&A by Glenn Reynolds held at the Clemson Institute for the Study of Capitalism on your very question, entitled The Higher Education Bubble and What Comes Next: http://vimeo.com/15821943 http://vimeo.com/15821943 Check it out.
  - anshumans 14y ago
    Sweet, will check it out, thanks!
- muzz 14y ago
  Sticker prices have been soaring. Actual cost of attendance hasn't been increasing nearly as much-- many students don't pay anywhere near the sticker price due to tuition wavers, grants, etc. This article summarizes it as 3rd degree price discrimination: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-27/misconceptions-101-why-college-costs-aren-t-soaring.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-27/misconceptions-101-...
therobot24 14y ago
i did my undergrad at a commuter school (ended up with three bachelor degrees for a total cost of ~$24k) and am now at top 10 for my PhD in a STEM field. Even though i have no debt, i wouldn't recommend it. Comparing the school i was at, and the one i'm in now is like apples and oranges. Even the undergraduate classes i TA are much more difficult in terms of the amount of knowledge and work required to pass than the smaller local school. Before i figured that math is math, science is science, and the facts shouldn't really change from school to school, but now i can really see a difference of who is better prepared for cutting edge industry/graduate school.
bsg75 14y ago
> Meanwhile, the average tuition for just one year at a four-year private university in 2011 was almost $33,000, Why the focus on private universities? From the same data source, the cost at a public institution is less than half that. (Public institution grad here) Get a degree somewhere, and concurrently some relevant experience (paid or volunteer), and you will be better suited for the future than someone who has to invest 100% of their university career (or after) struggling to pay for it.

69 points by kestakhri 14y ago

Hasn't the largest increase in tuition costs come from paying so many new administrators? Let's start there before we start cutting lectures and class time.

muzz 14y ago
Would love to see any hard data on what the actual new administrators are, and how much the additional costs are. Raw numbers, not the % increase compared to some year in the past.

CleanedStar 14y ago

"I disagree. I possess a 10K-B.A., which I got way back in 1994. And it was the most important intellectual and career move I ever made." And this is why your major accomplishments are being a professor at a third-tier school like Syracuse, and being a commissar and hack for a think tank funded by the Olins, ExxonMobil etc. What a surprise such a shlocky job is done by someone who could barely make it through college and got a crap degree.

RobotCaleb 14y ago
Who are you to attack this man's accomplishments and demean his work?
cantastoria 14y ago
Your elitism is breathtaking. What have you done with your life that makes you so special?
ucee054 14y ago
Yes, it's a bit of a misrepresentation that he refers to AEI as "I am now the president of a Washington research organization."

codexon 14y ago

I thought this comment there summed up the entire article succinctly. A contrarian comment based on the interestingly paradoxical fact that our sub-20K PhD found his path to happiness (if, indeed, that's what heading the American Enterprise Institute represents for him) by recognizing he might best pursue such a goal by becoming a tenured professor at a $45K per BA year institution. I remain unimpressed by today's tutorial

randallsquared 14y ago
So, we can sum up that comment as "It's not what you learn, it's how much it cost for your degree that matters in life"?
- codexon 14y ago
  The way I took it is that his degree was valuable to him because he participated in the overpriced college market, the very thing he is criticizing.

up_and_up 14y ago

I have a ~10K degree from UC Berkeley that I got in 2004. Spent 2 years at Cabrillo College, in Aptos, CA - Tuition Cost: ~$1000 Spent 18 months at UC Berkeley, taking 16-21 credits per semester, including a summer quarter, after a small scholarship ($4000) - Tuition Cost: $10,000 So $11,000 My strategy: Go to community college for 2 years, do well, get the Berkeley Alumni Scholarship ($4000/year), take lots of classes, finish early. I have $0.0 debt. Due to tuition increases not sure you could replicate this, but I bet you could get close. For those who get snobbish re community college, it really depends where you go! At Cabrillo, a lot of my profs had Phd's from reputable schools and the students were pretty sharp. You get great access to profs in the small classes. Once I got to Berkeley I had no problem walking right up to the profs there, was not intimidated. Plus you get a better perspective of the world in Community College sitting next to the pregnant single mom, the retiree, the recent immigrant and the lawyer turned Plummer in your Philosophy of Mind class! Interesting discussion!

Legion 14y ago
Plus, Aptos and Capitola are crazy beautiful. :)
joshAg 14y ago
You can get pretty close. I graduated in 2011 after 4 years at Cal and only had ~$26k in debt.
smokey_the_bear 14y ago
What did you study? My father did the same thing as you, in the 1960s, and still raves about how great the community college was - it was small enough that he could do whatever he wanted in the chem lab because the prof knew him. I've looked at the catalogues for community colleges though, and I don't see how I could have gone there without drastically changing the amount of material that was covered my degree. They just don't offer the math and engineering classes that I took in my first two years.
r00fus 14y ago
That was my strategy as well. You can live on a pretty shoestring budget going to community college if you live with family or friends nearby. What you don't get is the access to all the university culture (frats/dorms/connections), or at least that's what I've been told.

insaneirish 14y ago

The moral of the article's story, and my experience interviewing lots of folks, is that the quality of the student's desire to learn supersedes the perceived quality of the institution. Funny enough, I took "C Programming" at Thomas Edison (mentioned in the article) the summer between 7th and 8th grades. I learned at home and took proctored exams. 5 years later, Rutgers honored the 3 credits (though I also had AP credit) for an intro programming class.

pm90 14y ago

May I propose an alternate solution? Get your degree from India. Most of the good universities have special considerations/ admission procedures for foreign students. There will be plenty of differences from a University in the West; but for those with a sense for adventure, it might still be worthwhile

up_and_up 14y ago
Not a bad idea. What are the reputable schools a westerner could get into?
- pm90 14y ago
  For engineering, the best university is IIT(govt. funded) and BITS Pilani (private). To get into them, you must take their entrance examinations (which are very competitive). The National Institute of Technologies are a group of universities that give direct admissions to foreign nationals [0]. But be careful, only a few highly reputed ones might give a competitive education. There are other universities like ManipalTech[1], VIT[2] which also give direct admissions to foreign nationals. [0] https://www.dasanit.org/ https://www.dasanit.org/ [1] http://www.manipal.edu/INTERNATIONALSTUDENTS/UNDERGRADUATE/Pages/Categories.aspx http://www.manipal.edu/INTERNATIONALSTUDENTS/UNDERGRADUATE/P... [2]http://www.vit.ac.in/ http://www.vit.ac.in/
geoka9 14y ago
It looks like for programming jobs it really doesn't matter where your degree is from. So this maybe a valid idea (in fact any university will do as long as you can speak the language they use to teach). But for other occupations (doctors?) - I'm not so sure. Probably a Canadian medical school graduate will be able to get a residency position in the US, but a graduate from India?
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  Actually, you're completely wrong. There are a ton of foreign medical graduates from India in the US. If you have ever seen an ethnically Indian doctor, there's a good chance he/she went to medical school in India.

ctdonath 14y ago

My wife & I have five degrees between us (an Ivy League included), total cost under $100k. The amount of tuition money out there waiting for recipients is staggering, if you'll just look for it, study hard, and be flexible. And do realize there is a difference between education and certification. If you're paying list price for an education, you're doing it wrong.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
codexon 14y ago
Be a minority or the top 1% in your class of people likely depending on the same thing?
- muzz 14y ago
  If you are a student from a family with median income or below, Harvard and Stanford waive tuition (and Stanford will cover room and board too). http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/21/us-education-stanford-tuition-idUSN2041220220080221 http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/21/us-education-stanf...
  - codexon 14y ago
    I think everyone is aware of that by now. Someone brings it up every time tuition comes up. Given their acceptance rates, this is not an option for even a majority of HN readers.
- ctdonath 14y ago
  I'm neither.
  - codexon 14y ago
    Let me guess what else. - Military or government service. - Join a company that will pay you to get the degree (likely only from a company that requires a top degree) - A field of study that no one ever chooses. If not feel free to share some of that information.

jstalin 14y ago

Where can one get a 5K MA?

jackpirate 14y ago
Apply as a phd so you can TA the whole time, then drop out with the masters. You'll get paid for your MA.

guylhem 14y ago

Yes, there ma be an education bubble out there, but it's easy to critize education when you already have gotten it and the privileges it entails - such as understand how it potentially is a bubble! But even with that knowledge of the high risks of a bubble, and even if one tries to forget the many studies proving education is a worthwhile investment (for the increased salary benefits one gets - cf signalling theory) how munch do you think the capacity to learn and create is worth? How valuable is it to you? Some people do not need any formal education to get that. But many do. And even those who don't "need" a formal education can take great advantage of it - for ex finding some golden insights with a marketable value, formalizing their knowledge, or even better- learning how to create new knowledge (PhD) There is a growing anti intellectual bias - even here on HN. Whatever, but least leave aside your opinion and consider the facts. (conflict of interest warning - I made an "investment" in my education, and therefore I could have a biased opinion)

mdasen 14y ago
I don't think people are criticizing education. I think that a lot of people who have gotten degrees are looking back on their college education and wondering about the cost - particularly if they graduated with a degree that isn't leading into a comfortable career. Universities in America are very expensive (even when you compensate for state aid). I remember getting a mailing from Amherst College back when I was applying to schools a decade ago noting that while the sticker price was in the mid-$30,000 range, the college was actually spending tens of thousands more than that price per student. I think it was to tell people, "even if you're paying full price, you're still getting a good deal." What stuck with me was the amount being spent. Looking at many other countries with respectable third level education systems, they're spending less. According to the OECD, the United States spends $29,201 per student while the European Union spends $12,967. Over four years, that amounts to $64,936. If you consider that in many countries Arts Degrees are 3-year programs, the savings becomes $77,903. So, even if one thinks education is wonderful, one can question "why is it becoming so expensive? what are American universities doing wrong?" Similarly, there has been (although it's going away a bit) this idea that "the school matters more than the program" or "it's the Bachelor's degree that you need, not any specific skill." Being against those trains of thought isn't anti-intellectual. If anything, it's pro-intellectual. It's saying that you should learn good things rather than trying to take the easiest course at the place with the best reputation. Still, I think there are people questioning their undergraduate expense if they entered without much of a plan (college was simply "the next thing people of my status do"). Many of my friends have had to spend a year taking additional classes to prepare for a graduate program their undergrad didn't prepare them for - because they didn't know what they wanted to do at the time. Here on HN, we typically dislike things like power imbalances, high prices, places that seem to have a lock on the market, etc. Universities can exemplify those things. Many people need formal education and universities do have valuable things to offer. However, I think a reasonable person who has been around universities will have seen a lot of money spent on things simply because the money is around; because students will pay it. That's bad. To make an analogy: when people criticize certain ISPs, they aren't saying that they don't find the internet valuable. When it comes down to it, I think most of us would part with $150+ for our internet connection. However, we don't evaluate price simply in terms of what we get out of it, but also with an eye toward whether the service is being offered at an efficient, fair price. If my ISP forced me to pay $150/mo, I probably would. The internet has high value to me. But, in that case, I would complain. Even if my ISP's margins were low (or even not-for-profit), I would question the efficiency with which they were provisioning my service; I would question whether they were wise with their spending; I would question whether they had a staffing mixture appropriate for their business; I would question whether their leadership knew what they needed to do in order to provide good service at an affordable price. I would question this because I would look at other, similar countries where people were being provisioned internet of substantially similar quality for substantially less money.

mitchi 14y ago

To me it seems really silly to spend 100K to learn things that are only at a Bachelor's level. People who did their bachelor's in other countries like France or Sweden, for free, are learning the same things from scientific papers right now. Even if the Bachelor degree is harder or better, there is no difference in the end because it's only Bachelor level stuff. Harvard or MIT cannot make you into a powerful machine. The most important thing to achieve a big scientific career is to be born with the genetics and the willpower to work. It seems that going to Harvard or Stanford takes care of the latter part since you are betting your life on a few years of your life and you are taking extraordinary debt to do so. If you're getting it all for free, you probably won't work as hard right? But after a few years, if you go to the master degree or the doctorate, what difference does it make? None.

zanny 14y ago
The money isn't for the knowledge, its for the credentials. Having a degree from a perceived "top" school is being oversold as extremely valuable when job hunting. Actual skillset is irrelevant. What ends up being really relevant is that a lot of the big gun companies target schools, and recruit right from the graduating crop in person, sometimes with barely an interview as long as the GPA is reasonable. That has value bordering on that 100k price tag.
muzz 14y ago
Numbers like that are often red herrings. Harvard undergraduates have an average student loan debt of $11,780 [1]. While it's not $10k, and it is debt, it's really not that much higher. [1] http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/10/18/graduates-small-colleges-average-student-loan-debt/fKywfPz7llnt0Up3K0X2qJ/story.html http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/10/18/graduates-small-...

anshumans 14y ago

From an economics standpoint, I'm curious why education has been skyrocketing in price? Is it primarily due to demand, and universities are just jacking up tuition because they can? Or are there other factors at play?

kestakhri 14y ago
I think you'll enjoy this fascinating lecture and Q&A by Glenn Reynolds held at the Clemson Institute for the Study of Capitalism on your very question, entitled The Higher Education Bubble and What Comes Next: http://vimeo.com/15821943 http://vimeo.com/15821943 Check it out.
- anshumans 14y ago
  Sweet, will check it out, thanks!
muzz 14y ago
Sticker prices have been soaring. Actual cost of attendance hasn't been increasing nearly as much-- many students don't pay anywhere near the sticker price due to tuition wavers, grants, etc. This article summarizes it as 3rd degree price discrimination: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-27/misconceptions-101-why-college-costs-aren-t-soaring.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-27/misconceptions-101-...

therobot24 14y ago

i did my undergrad at a commuter school (ended up with three bachelor degrees for a total cost of ~$24k) and am now at top 10 for my PhD in a STEM field. Even though i have no debt, i wouldn't recommend it. Comparing the school i was at, and the one i'm in now is like apples and oranges. Even the undergraduate classes i TA are much more difficult in terms of the amount of knowledge and work required to pass than the smaller local school. Before i figured that math is math, science is science, and the facts shouldn't really change from school to school, but now i can really see a difference of who is better prepared for cutting edge industry/graduate school.

bsg75 14y ago

> Meanwhile, the average tuition for just one year at a four-year private university in 2011 was almost $33,000, Why the focus on private universities? From the same data source, the cost at a public institution is less than half that. (Public institution grad here) Get a degree somewhere, and concurrently some relevant experience (paid or volunteer), and you will be better suited for the future than someone who has to invest 100% of their university career (or after) struggling to pay for it.