20 ms·

I do not agree with the word 'waste'.

keithpeter 14y ago
Yes, I thought that the word 'waste' was inappropriate as well. Microsoft systems will work fine, but, in the UK at least, we pay an annual license fee for using their software. The details are (notoriously) unclear but educational licensing is significantly cheaper than business/enterprise costs. At the client end, my students are already using a variety of devices of their own with non-Microsoft interfaces. I have no doubt of their ability to cope with client PCs that had (say) Gnome Shell or Unity running on them, certainly no issues with XFCE4 or one of the Gnome 3 'remixed' interfaces. We already use RDP to access more exotic software such as Adobe/Autocad &c. The musicians and media people have their Macs for Logic and Final Cut. As always it comes down to the business systems, and daring to be the first institution to change. If Greece is still at the stage of putting building-wide wifi into their schools, well, it strikes me that there is an opportunity to try a different approach possibly with lower total cost.
- duncan_bayne 14y ago
  If there are two equivalent systems, where one costs and the other is gratis then yes, money spent on the former is waste. In this case though they aren't even equivalent ;)
  - sbuk 14y ago
    Duncan, suggesting that it's that simple is extremely naive. OSS has costs too. I have no doubt that OSS would be cheaper, but it would be nice to see real world cost comparisons, and not the usual zealotry from the GPL lot.
    - duncan_bayne 14y ago
      Both solutions will obviously have implementation and maintenance costs. Given that a free solution exists, however, anything spent over and above those costs - e.g. on licensing - is wasted.
      - sbuk 14y ago
        It's not that black and white. The re-training costs alone could prove to be significantly more than the cost of a license. So no, it's not "wasted".
        duncan_bayne 14y ago
        Please re-read my comment. I acknowledge that both solutions have implementation and maintenance costs - which include the cost of re-training. Anything over and above that _is_ waste. (FWIW, I dislike the term 'training'. Someone else said this first, but I agree: training is what you do to dogs, education is what you provide people.)
        sbuk 14y ago
        I dislike the term 'waste' when referring to software licensing over 'free' software. As I said, it's not as simple as you are suggesting. I pointer out training (semantically, it is training), but there are other costs and factors to consider. I'm not suggesting for one minute that OSS is a bad choice, just that it is not necessarily the most cost effective in short to medium term.
guard-of-terra 14y ago
Those are money packed in a box and send to USA. Open source would have caused Greece to spend a part of that money inside the country, employing local specialists.
- walshemj 14y ago
  yes but the us subsidiary would probably pay more tax to the govenment.
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    Still a fraction of the amount sent abroad. Free software allows all the money to stay in Greece.
- quasque 14y ago
  They will need to hire (or continue to hire) local specialists to install and maintain the software though. I would not be surprised if the wage cost is higher than the cost of the software.
  - guard-of-terra 14y ago
    But those money remain in the country and make its economy feel better. Increase consumer spendings and yada yada. Money that you ship off (even after tax) make it worse.
    - quasque 14y ago
      Sorry I misworded my comment, I meant that local specialists will be needed for commercial software too, to install and maintain it.
      - guard-of-terra 14y ago
        If the commercial software needs as much specialists to support, what's the point anyway? The whole idea of commercial software is outsourcing work instead of doing everything in-house.

Yes, I thought that the word 'waste' was inappropriate as well. Microsoft systems will work fine, but, in the UK at least, we pay an annual license fee for using their software. The details are (notoriously) unclear but educational licensing is significantly cheaper than business/enterprise costs. At the client end, my students are already using a variety of devices of their own with non-Microsoft interfaces. I have no doubt of their ability to cope with client PCs that had (say) Gnome Shell or Unity running on them, certainly no issues with XFCE4 or one of the Gnome 3 'remixed' interfaces. We already use RDP to access more exotic software such as Adobe/Autocad &c. The musicians and media people have their Macs for Logic and Final Cut. As always it comes down to the business systems, and daring to be the first institution to change. If Greece is still at the stage of putting building-wide wifi into their schools, well, it strikes me that there is an opportunity to try a different approach possibly with lower total cost.

duncan_bayne 14y ago
If there are two equivalent systems, where one costs and the other is gratis then yes, money spent on the former is waste. In this case though they aren't even equivalent ;)
- sbuk 14y ago
  Duncan, suggesting that it's that simple is extremely naive. OSS has costs too. I have no doubt that OSS would be cheaper, but it would be nice to see real world cost comparisons, and not the usual zealotry from the GPL lot.
  - duncan_bayne 14y ago
    Both solutions will obviously have implementation and maintenance costs. Given that a free solution exists, however, anything spent over and above those costs - e.g. on licensing - is wasted.
    - sbuk 14y ago
      It's not that black and white. The re-training costs alone could prove to be significantly more than the cost of a license. So no, it's not "wasted".
      - duncan_bayne 14y ago
        Please re-read my comment. I acknowledge that both solutions have implementation and maintenance costs - which include the cost of re-training. Anything over and above that _is_ waste. (FWIW, I dislike the term 'training'. Someone else said this first, but I agree: training is what you do to dogs, education is what you provide people.)
        sbuk 14y ago
        I dislike the term 'waste' when referring to software licensing over 'free' software. As I said, it's not as simple as you are suggesting. I pointer out training (semantically, it is training), but there are other costs and factors to consider. I'm not suggesting for one minute that OSS is a bad choice, just that it is not necessarily the most cost effective in short to medium term.

guard-of-terra 14y ago

Those are money packed in a box and send to USA. Open source would have caused Greece to spend a part of that money inside the country, employing local specialists.

walshemj 14y ago
yes but the us subsidiary would probably pay more tax to the govenment.
- rbanffy 14y ago
  Still a fraction of the amount sent abroad. Free software allows all the money to stay in Greece.
quasque 14y ago
They will need to hire (or continue to hire) local specialists to install and maintain the software though. I would not be surprised if the wage cost is higher than the cost of the software.
- guard-of-terra 14y ago
  But those money remain in the country and make its economy feel better. Increase consumer spendings and yada yada. Money that you ship off (even after tax) make it worse.
  - quasque 14y ago
    Sorry I misworded my comment, I meant that local specialists will be needed for commercial software too, to install and maintain it.
    - guard-of-terra 14y ago
      If the commercial software needs as much specialists to support, what's the point anyway? The whole idea of commercial software is outsourcing work instead of doing everything in-house.