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> We are going from the era of manual, line-by-line mental model transcription to one where software engineers can focus on data structures, software architectu

> We are going from the era of manual, line-by-line mental model transcription to one where software engineers can focus on data structures, software architecture and algorithms. Focusing on data structures, architecture and algorithms is what competency in programming has looked like since forever. Building systems out of smaller pieces gets you there. If your complaint above is that you were struggling with syntax and reading documentation, one might ask if you failed to progress past beginner levels, and now AI is just your cheat-code?

kaffekaka 4d ago
I think you are not interpreting GP in the most charitable way. He simply said that not having to manually write all the code lets him spend his energy on bigger things. That is different from "struggling with syntax".
- fodkodrasz 4d ago
  It is the same. I mean many mainstream languages made thinking in datastructures hard. Not a coincidence why functional languages, Haskell, F#, OCAML, Scala, Clojure, LISP, etc. had their enthusiast, as they felt just like what you claim. The datastructures already did the heavy lifting. The syntax was not something to struggle with, but it was the natural way to stick the bits together. JavaScript for one never gave me this feeling, and I always felt that either the language, or the libraries, but something was always a struggle to overcome. (Python too... seriously, working with collections is a pain in the "pythonic" way for someone who has experienced LINQ... and for most line of business apps it is all about working with collections.)
- turpentine 4d ago
  Syntax is listed right there in the GP comment. They've given plenty of rope to hang themselves by. Someone who says that programming is not about working at the level of about data structures and algorithms without LLMs raises red flags.
staticautomatic 4d ago
Do you remember how bad documentation was? I still have nightmares about Twisted.
- wartywhoa23 4d ago
  And I have wonderful lucid dreams about MSDN. Also, are you implying that docs became better in the AI era?
- eloisius 3d ago
  Some projects have fantastic documentation. Qt comes to mind. The experience of writing Qt is a pleasure because I can always jump to the doc for whatever class I'm dealing with and find what I'm looking for immediately. Also every argument type is well-linked in every signature so it's easy to follow and understand everything you're dealing with.
_zoltan_ 4d ago
> Focusing on data structures, architecture and algorithms is what competency in programming has looked like since forever yes, being able to bang out leetcode hard from head on an interview on paper matters so much... oh wait. it does not. in the real world, outside of interview questions, it hardly matters. when it comes there, I'll optimizite it, but getting the first system up and running in a way I want is way more fun & challenging. need a lock free ringbuffer? I'll look up what's the latest way to build it. or just ask my AI.
- skydhash 4d ago
  > yes, being able to bang out leetcode hard from head on an interview on paper matters so much... oh wait. it does not. That's about reciting standard data structures like stack and queues. I think parent is talking more about the design of primitives for the domain of the software. That requires creativity and insight.

kaffekaka 4d ago

I think you are not interpreting GP in the most charitable way. He simply said that not having to manually write all the code lets him spend his energy on bigger things. That is different from "struggling with syntax".

fodkodrasz 4d ago
It is the same. I mean many mainstream languages made thinking in datastructures hard. Not a coincidence why functional languages, Haskell, F#, OCAML, Scala, Clojure, LISP, etc. had their enthusiast, as they felt just like what you claim. The datastructures already did the heavy lifting. The syntax was not something to struggle with, but it was the natural way to stick the bits together. JavaScript for one never gave me this feeling, and I always felt that either the language, or the libraries, but something was always a struggle to overcome. (Python too... seriously, working with collections is a pain in the "pythonic" way for someone who has experienced LINQ... and for most line of business apps it is all about working with collections.)
turpentine 4d ago
Syntax is listed right there in the GP comment. They've given plenty of rope to hang themselves by. Someone who says that programming is not about working at the level of about data structures and algorithms without LLMs raises red flags.

staticautomatic 4d ago

Do you remember how bad documentation was? I still have nightmares about Twisted.

wartywhoa23 4d ago
And I have wonderful lucid dreams about MSDN. Also, are you implying that docs became better in the AI era?
eloisius 3d ago
Some projects have fantastic documentation. Qt comes to mind. The experience of writing Qt is a pleasure because I can always jump to the doc for whatever class I'm dealing with and find what I'm looking for immediately. Also every argument type is well-linked in every signature so it's easy to follow and understand everything you're dealing with.

_zoltan_ 4d ago

> Focusing on data structures, architecture and algorithms is what competency in programming has looked like since forever yes, being able to bang out leetcode hard from head on an interview on paper matters so much... oh wait. it does not. in the real world, outside of interview questions, it hardly matters. when it comes there, I'll optimizite it, but getting the first system up and running in a way I want is way more fun & challenging. need a lock free ringbuffer? I'll look up what's the latest way to build it. or just ask my AI.

skydhash 4d ago
> yes, being able to bang out leetcode hard from head on an interview on paper matters so much... oh wait. it does not. That's about reciting standard data structures like stack and queues. I think parent is talking more about the design of primitives for the domain of the software. That requires creativity and insight.