5 ms·

No. RCS is still quite hard to actually implement. There's an open issue for it but the effort is mildly herculean. AFAIUI though GOS does intend on providing

No. RCS is still quite hard to actually implement. There's an open issue for it but the effort is mildly herculean. AFAIUI though GOS does intend on providing an RCS impl eventually even if it takes years to do.

sterlind 5d ago
What's so difficult about implementing RCS from a technical perspective?
- 0l 5d ago
  https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225561294973728 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225561294973728
  - prophesi 5d ago
    Thanks! I noticed on one of my phones that RCS breaks once the Messages app is out of date by a certain amount of revisions. I hope this is an arbitrary decision by Google to invalidate older versions, given that the RCS protocol hasn't changed. I wouldn't want the Graphene team to have to keep up with each change Google makes with their Messages app, and instead is a security oversight Google has found in their own app.
    - grapheneos 4d ago
      We definitely will have to keep up with the changes. We already do in order to provide support for using RCS via Google Messages on GrapheneOS. Recently, they made a change which broke it on GrapheneOS and we had to quickly fix that in under a day.
- deleted 5d ago
  [deleted]
Groxx 5d ago
particularly if you want to support all of the message-body features, of which there are MANY. it's very business-comms oriented. I broadly expect third-party RCS apps to drop that though, like how essentially none support all of MMS. did you know MMS supports slideshows (I built support for this once)? 3d objects (mimetype model/gltf+json)? "timed text" (mimetype text/mp4)?
sicktriple 5d ago
I'm really hoping they're doing this to pave the way for an RCS implementation. If it can be done, GOS is in the best position to make it happen, and without RCS, chatting with normies is both extremely inconvenient (large group chats straight up do not work) and categorically insecure. If I could convince all my friends and family to use Signal I would, but they just think I'm on about some weird Edward Snowden shit, and they just write me off as crazy. "Why would I checks notes download software to solve a problem when I could use the one that came with my phone?"
- loufe 5d ago
  Don't give up the good fight! Took some time but I got the whole family to adopt it as we had no common shared platform before, and it's been great.
- greatgib 5d ago
  I'm thinking quite the opposite. I hope RCS can die fast. We already have chat apps WhatsApp, signal, telegram, you can even create your own. I'm quite happy that SMS for one are not something centralized by the giant US big corp. Would be the dream of Google to get all your messages as a gateway.
  - sva_ 5d ago
    So I looked into this because my idea of RCS was that it was pretty decentralized direct encrypted communication. TIL that RCS was designed as a fairly decentralized protocol where every carrier could run their own RCS servers, but it didnt get adoption. So Google stepped in and built their own routing infrastructure, and now mostly all RCS is centralized on Google's servers (even if you use an iPhone, because the RCS server is mandated by your carrier)
    - emayljames 5d ago
      The implementations of RCS servers that were being done (here in the UK) by carriers, had many issues. A lot of the time your Google messages couldn't connect to the carrier RCS server, messages silently didn't send. I don't know if that was due to something like the carriers not updating their servers, or bad implementation though.
tcfhgj 5d ago
also I think RCS is way to insecure for Graphene OS - they have no way of making sure the communication is actually 100% secure. In my experience, Graphene OS doesn't make compromises.
- fph 5d ago
  Why would they support SMS then?
  - sellmesoap 5d ago
    SMS is a defacto carrier tech that people expect to work, people also don't expect e2ee or any kind of privacy scheme on SMS but it might be a place to hand communication off to a different tech. Whereas RCS leaks meta data to the goog or worse (I don't know the ins and outs of RCS) but by default I would trust it less then signal, who may also collect meta data leaked through the goog, so I guess the real solution is to be boring and assume there is no security or privacy for anyone of reasonable means.
    - prophesi 5d ago
      Signal > RCS > SMS. Just because RCS can't be done without metadata doesn't mean it's a fruitless endeavor. Why not have someone use RCS to then get on Signal? That is so much better than plaintext SMS to Signal. And for most people, RCS between Android <-> iOS is the biggest advancement in encrypted communication for the layman that I've seen since Let's Encrypt.
      - sellmesoap 5d ago
        That is a positive progression for sure. I guess it sounds like RCS is gatekept behind a play store API on the android side so there isn't an open source solution quite yet? Mostly I'm lamenting that even with signal there's meta-data you can infer behavior from. I know Session messenger has a bit of a network shuffle (is it garlic routing?) That blurs metadata collection a bit, but then they watered down several of Signals' security/privacy choices. I'm constantly curious and overwhelmed at the choice of text communication platforms, just so many!
seany 5d ago
RCS is really the only thing I truly am annoyed by with rooted devices. If GrapheneOS can build something open that works we should be able to rip it apart and get it to work without passing play integrity.
- grapheneos 5d ago
  RCS already works on GrapheneOS via Google Messages using sandboxed Google Play. We have an ICC authentication toggle for granting the required access to Google Play services. We want to provide our own implementation within our Messaging app to replace Google Messages and then we want to provide an alternate backend not depending on sandboxed Google Play, at least for carriers with their own implementation.
grapheneos 5d ago
It may take a long time to make a fully standalone implementation and that may not be compatible with most carriers. However, we plan to provide it in the short term through support for using the Google RCS infrastructure. We can have it start out supporting using sandboxed Google Play for RCS activation in the same way Google Messages uses it to replace Google Messages.

sterlind 5d ago

What's so difficult about implementing RCS from a technical perspective?

0l 5d ago
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225561294973728 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225561294973728
- prophesi 5d ago
  Thanks! I noticed on one of my phones that RCS breaks once the Messages app is out of date by a certain amount of revisions. I hope this is an arbitrary decision by Google to invalidate older versions, given that the RCS protocol hasn't changed. I wouldn't want the Graphene team to have to keep up with each change Google makes with their Messages app, and instead is a security oversight Google has found in their own app.
  - grapheneos 4d ago
    We definitely will have to keep up with the changes. We already do in order to provide support for using RCS via Google Messages on GrapheneOS. Recently, they made a change which broke it on GrapheneOS and we had to quickly fix that in under a day.
deleted 5d ago
[deleted]

Groxx 5d ago

particularly if you want to support all of the message-body features, of which there are MANY. it's very business-comms oriented. I broadly expect third-party RCS apps to drop that though, like how essentially none support all of MMS. did you know MMS supports slideshows (I built support for this once)? 3d objects (mimetype model/gltf+json)? "timed text" (mimetype text/mp4)?

sicktriple 5d ago

I'm really hoping they're doing this to pave the way for an RCS implementation. If it can be done, GOS is in the best position to make it happen, and without RCS, chatting with normies is both extremely inconvenient (large group chats straight up do not work) and categorically insecure. If I could convince all my friends and family to use Signal I would, but they just think I'm on about some weird Edward Snowden shit, and they just write me off as crazy. "Why would I checks notes download software to solve a problem when I could use the one that came with my phone?"

loufe 5d ago
Don't give up the good fight! Took some time but I got the whole family to adopt it as we had no common shared platform before, and it's been great.
greatgib 5d ago
I'm thinking quite the opposite. I hope RCS can die fast. We already have chat apps WhatsApp, signal, telegram, you can even create your own. I'm quite happy that SMS for one are not something centralized by the giant US big corp. Would be the dream of Google to get all your messages as a gateway.
- sva_ 5d ago
  So I looked into this because my idea of RCS was that it was pretty decentralized direct encrypted communication. TIL that RCS was designed as a fairly decentralized protocol where every carrier could run their own RCS servers, but it didnt get adoption. So Google stepped in and built their own routing infrastructure, and now mostly all RCS is centralized on Google's servers (even if you use an iPhone, because the RCS server is mandated by your carrier)
  - emayljames 5d ago
    The implementations of RCS servers that were being done (here in the UK) by carriers, had many issues. A lot of the time your Google messages couldn't connect to the carrier RCS server, messages silently didn't send. I don't know if that was due to something like the carriers not updating their servers, or bad implementation though.

tcfhgj 5d ago

also I think RCS is way to insecure for Graphene OS - they have no way of making sure the communication is actually 100% secure. In my experience, Graphene OS doesn't make compromises.

fph 5d ago
Why would they support SMS then?
- sellmesoap 5d ago
  SMS is a defacto carrier tech that people expect to work, people also don't expect e2ee or any kind of privacy scheme on SMS but it might be a place to hand communication off to a different tech. Whereas RCS leaks meta data to the goog or worse (I don't know the ins and outs of RCS) but by default I would trust it less then signal, who may also collect meta data leaked through the goog, so I guess the real solution is to be boring and assume there is no security or privacy for anyone of reasonable means.
  - prophesi 5d ago
    Signal > RCS > SMS. Just because RCS can't be done without metadata doesn't mean it's a fruitless endeavor. Why not have someone use RCS to then get on Signal? That is so much better than plaintext SMS to Signal. And for most people, RCS between Android <-> iOS is the biggest advancement in encrypted communication for the layman that I've seen since Let's Encrypt.
    - sellmesoap 5d ago
      That is a positive progression for sure. I guess it sounds like RCS is gatekept behind a play store API on the android side so there isn't an open source solution quite yet? Mostly I'm lamenting that even with signal there's meta-data you can infer behavior from. I know Session messenger has a bit of a network shuffle (is it garlic routing?) That blurs metadata collection a bit, but then they watered down several of Signals' security/privacy choices. I'm constantly curious and overwhelmed at the choice of text communication platforms, just so many!

seany 5d ago

RCS is really the only thing I truly am annoyed by with rooted devices. If GrapheneOS can build something open that works we should be able to rip it apart and get it to work without passing play integrity.

grapheneos 5d ago
RCS already works on GrapheneOS via Google Messages using sandboxed Google Play. We have an ICC authentication toggle for granting the required access to Google Play services. We want to provide our own implementation within our Messaging app to replace Google Messages and then we want to provide an alternate backend not depending on sandboxed Google Play, at least for carriers with their own implementation.

grapheneos 5d ago

It may take a long time to make a fully standalone implementation and that may not be compatible with most carriers. However, we plan to provide it in the short term through support for using the Google RCS infrastructure. We can have it start out supporting using sandboxed Google Play for RCS activation in the same way Google Messages uses it to replace Google Messages.