5 ms·

Who says anyone needs to hold a mental model? Imho a better way of thinking about it is in terms of views - you can have an unimaginably complex codebase that

Who says anyone needs to hold a mental model? Imho a better way of thinking about it is in terms of views - you can have an unimaginably complex codebase that nobody reads in full, but either agents or humans receive views/perspectives on that codebase. Before LLMs we couldn’t have built tools that would deliver such views, now we can.

NichoPaolucci 5d ago
I mean... Nobody NEEDs to hold a mental model, but we've been increasingly trying to build that mental model into an agentic codebase... maybe we're doing it wrong but it is NOT going well. The agents jot down absolutely everything (and more, which is the issue), thousands and thousands files of perceived business logic, decisions, workflows, architecture, data modeling, etc... It gets stale extremely quickly - we change one thing in the system and 570 "shards" need to be updated. I stumble on more and more things every day that are untrue about the agents "mental model" and it appears to just keep doing it. One small addition not properly reviewed by a human introduces a cascade of misconceptions system wide. We've tried these "views" you mention, we call them subsections, but it runs into the same problems. One falsification ends up poisoning entire projects. Remember when we use to refactor functions in a codebase in order to slim down complexity? Yeah - we ended up doing that but with documentation... IMO code is deterministic and we have trained professionals who know how to read it quickly and modify it. (We don't even need to write it anymore, but reading it is the simplest way to ensure no-loss understanding of a piece of functionality.)
- kolinko 5d ago
  Oh, I just dropped all the comments. Memory and session histories are for storing these things, comments just add confusion. Subsections - how do they run into the same problem? What falsification? The views I mean are dynamic ad hoc. Every single small task gets its own temporary view. But perhaps I’m misunderstanding something that you’re saying?
vb-8448 5d ago
The only difference with the past that you need less time to dig through the codebase or documentation, the agent can do it for you and provide only meaningful info, but without a "Mental model"(or knowing what's going under the hood) your own prompts will be the main reason of the sloppiness and high token usage.

NichoPaolucci 5d ago

I mean... Nobody NEEDs to hold a mental model, but we've been increasingly trying to build that mental model into an agentic codebase... maybe we're doing it wrong but it is NOT going well. The agents jot down absolutely everything (and more, which is the issue), thousands and thousands files of perceived business logic, decisions, workflows, architecture, data modeling, etc... It gets stale extremely quickly - we change one thing in the system and 570 "shards" need to be updated. I stumble on more and more things every day that are untrue about the agents "mental model" and it appears to just keep doing it. One small addition not properly reviewed by a human introduces a cascade of misconceptions system wide. We've tried these "views" you mention, we call them subsections, but it runs into the same problems. One falsification ends up poisoning entire projects. Remember when we use to refactor functions in a codebase in order to slim down complexity? Yeah - we ended up doing that but with documentation... IMO code is deterministic and we have trained professionals who know how to read it quickly and modify it. (We don't even need to write it anymore, but reading it is the simplest way to ensure no-loss understanding of a piece of functionality.)

kolinko 5d ago
Oh, I just dropped all the comments. Memory and session histories are for storing these things, comments just add confusion. Subsections - how do they run into the same problem? What falsification? The views I mean are dynamic ad hoc. Every single small task gets its own temporary view. But perhaps I’m misunderstanding something that you’re saying?

vb-8448 5d ago

The only difference with the past that you need less time to dig through the codebase or documentation, the agent can do it for you and provide only meaningful info, but without a "Mental model"(or knowing what's going under the hood) your own prompts will be the main reason of the sloppiness and high token usage.