7 ms·

First of all, what is datacenter pollution? Second, why is the article trying so hard to make datacenters out as racist?

MengerSponge 5d ago
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20260811-memphis-ai-data-center-fuels-pollution-fight-in-black-neighborhood https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20260811-memphis-ai-da...
- WarmWash 5d ago
  Yeah, but just being a human is enough to qualify for not living in a smog cloud. Also the article is trying to connect gas turbines from 2 years ago with cancer rates..
standeven 5d ago
The pollution is the immense amount of exhaust from the power generation equipment being installed on site at data centres. The article is from Capital B, which focuses on news affecting the Black community.
- WarmWash 5d ago
  [flagged]
  - convolvatron 5d ago
    no, we already abolished all rule making and review about CO2, this is removing the EPA requirement to install scrubbers for removal of NO and NO2 given sufficiently large outputs, which cause acid rain and are linked to respiratory problems. of course it all depends on the dose, which is why there there is a review process, which I guess was just too inconvenient
    - WarmWash 5d ago
      These are off-the-shelf generators, not bespoke built on-site. They typically have NOx emissions even lower than modern cars.
      - convolvatron 5d ago
        idk where you've been but the standard for AI datacenters buildouts right now is power-plant size turbine operations up to 1GW in size. not 2KVA Honda generators. notably they are single cycle and not combined cycle used in actual plants which requires burning up to 3x the methane for the same power output. none of this is a big secret.
        WarmWash 5d ago
        1GW is around 6,000 cars. There are probably twice that in the community complaining... Also the stat is from GE Vernova, they make the generators used. If you really want to argue without having the flex and bend to grasp at straws, just go with the noise argument, it actually is annoying to people nearby.
        convolvatron 5d ago
        my only argument here is that there isn't really any reason to avoid going through an emissions review if required. or to require that scrubbers be installed if necessary. the decision to just make an exception to the process for datacenters is more of a political statement about deregulation than anything else.
        worik 5d ago
        > 1GW is around 6,000 cars How do you figure?
        worik 5d ago
        https://nodsauto.com/how-many-watts-does-a-car-engine-produce/ https://nodsauto.com/how-many-watts-does-a-car-engine-produc... About 10,000 Close enough!
  - standeven 5d ago
    CO2, the stuff that has been buried for millions of years, and we're releasing all at once into the atmosphere? The stuff that is warming our planet faster than we, or nature, can adapt to? The stuff that is worsening global wildfires, flooding, retreating glaciers, heat waves, desertification, etc.? Yeah, that stuff. And other nasty things in the exhaust as well.
    - WarmWash 5d ago
      The global problem of CO2 is something separate than the hyper local "problem" of CO2. The "other stuff" is lower than the emissions in cars "other stuff". If you are rallying behind "Natural gas generators are poisoning our town" you are 100% guaranteed to look dumb upon any rational analyses. Its a bad angle and should be abandoned. Go after noise if anything.
      - standeven 5d ago
        Right, but global CO2 is still a massive problem. A data center drawing 5 GW is the equivalent power of 278,000 cars driving at highway speed. Even if these gas generators are cleaner (we don’t know because they are not regulated or measured), that is an insane amount of exhaust to locate near residential areas.
        WarmWash 5d ago
        If you're gonna change the subject to global CO2, I can go ahead and change the subject to meat production, or using AC, or flying in airplanes because surely the high horse you're trying to ride on can only carry an AC free low impact vegan, right? You gotta scale a lot of mountains before you can come down on DC emissions...
  - runako 5d ago
    > Water vapor? The stuff we drink? This is really obnoxious coming as people are still missing after historic flooding in Asia (via lots of concentrated water vapor, I guess).
Geof25 5d ago
Pollution happens when you don't have enough power in the grid so you will bring either diesel generators or methane turbines to make power. Also noise is pollution too.
- SoftTalker 5d ago
  With diesel over $6/gallon now that's probably not too attractive. Natural gas probably more likely, and less polluting at least as far as particulates go. CO2 still created. Are all new data centers being built with on-site power generation (for regular operations, not just emergency backup)? I'd assume they'd prefer utility power where they could get it.
- burnt-resistor 5d ago
  Diesel generators are mostly for emergencies. Natural gas turbines (many of which are or are derived from jumbo jet engines) are for on-prem power generation.
georgemcbay 5d ago
> Second, why is the article trying so hard to make datacenters out as racist? AI Datacenters are classist. Because of their negative externalities they will always be constructed near the poor who have the least political power. Humans are racist. So there is a strong systemic correlation between that group of disenfranchised people and people of color. The most directly harmful impacts of datacenters are racist, transitively.
- precision1k 5d ago
  [flagged]
  - georgemcbay 5d ago
    The pre-AI datacenters where you live are very different than the Colossus-style methane turbine and inadequately soundproofed AI datacenters that are being built today.
    - precision1k 5d ago
      No, they're not. The data center buildout in Loudoun County has not stopped. They're continuing to build them out. They're getting bigger and more pervasive everywhere. It is my intention to eventually move out of the county because they're an eyesore and they've swallowed up just about every bit of available land here. The point I was making to the original poster is that datacenters are not "transitively racist". They are built in both wealthy and poor areas.
  - datsci_est_2015 5d ago
    > Your idea that datacenters are racists transitively is woke slop. Your knee jerk reaction to refer to something as “woke slop” belies your privileged distance from anything remotely resembling hardship (I LiVe iN LoUdOuN) and an underdeveloped sense of empathy. Anyway, we should be extremely skeptical of how infrastructure is built out in the US because of historical baggage. Poverty and industrial development create a vicious cycle that leads people to walk around with their thumb in their ass and claim that the poors just aren’t pulling themselves up by their bootstraps hard enough.
forshaper 5d ago
We're in a county with a coal plant and an oil refinery. Somehow people are more concerned about potential data center pollution.
tzs 5d ago
Read up on Musk's Tennessee data center for an example of the kind of pollution under discussion.

MengerSponge 5d ago

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20260811-memphis-ai-data-center-fuels-pollution-fight-in-black-neighborhood https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20260811-memphis-ai-da...

WarmWash 5d ago
Yeah, but just being a human is enough to qualify for not living in a smog cloud. Also the article is trying to connect gas turbines from 2 years ago with cancer rates..

standeven 5d ago

The pollution is the immense amount of exhaust from the power generation equipment being installed on site at data centres. The article is from Capital B, which focuses on news affecting the Black community.

WarmWash 5d ago
[flagged]
- convolvatron 5d ago
  no, we already abolished all rule making and review about CO2, this is removing the EPA requirement to install scrubbers for removal of NO and NO2 given sufficiently large outputs, which cause acid rain and are linked to respiratory problems. of course it all depends on the dose, which is why there there is a review process, which I guess was just too inconvenient
  - WarmWash 5d ago
    These are off-the-shelf generators, not bespoke built on-site. They typically have NOx emissions even lower than modern cars.
    - convolvatron 5d ago
      idk where you've been but the standard for AI datacenters buildouts right now is power-plant size turbine operations up to 1GW in size. not 2KVA Honda generators. notably they are single cycle and not combined cycle used in actual plants which requires burning up to 3x the methane for the same power output. none of this is a big secret.
      - WarmWash 5d ago
        1GW is around 6,000 cars. There are probably twice that in the community complaining... Also the stat is from GE Vernova, they make the generators used. If you really want to argue without having the flex and bend to grasp at straws, just go with the noise argument, it actually is annoying to people nearby.
        convolvatron 5d ago
        my only argument here is that there isn't really any reason to avoid going through an emissions review if required. or to require that scrubbers be installed if necessary. the decision to just make an exception to the process for datacenters is more of a political statement about deregulation than anything else.
        worik 5d ago
        > 1GW is around 6,000 cars How do you figure?
        worik 5d ago
        https://nodsauto.com/how-many-watts-does-a-car-engine-produce/ https://nodsauto.com/how-many-watts-does-a-car-engine-produc... About 10,000 Close enough!
- standeven 5d ago
  CO2, the stuff that has been buried for millions of years, and we're releasing all at once into the atmosphere? The stuff that is warming our planet faster than we, or nature, can adapt to? The stuff that is worsening global wildfires, flooding, retreating glaciers, heat waves, desertification, etc.? Yeah, that stuff. And other nasty things in the exhaust as well.
  - WarmWash 5d ago
    The global problem of CO2 is something separate than the hyper local "problem" of CO2. The "other stuff" is lower than the emissions in cars "other stuff". If you are rallying behind "Natural gas generators are poisoning our town" you are 100% guaranteed to look dumb upon any rational analyses. Its a bad angle and should be abandoned. Go after noise if anything.
    - standeven 5d ago
      Right, but global CO2 is still a massive problem. A data center drawing 5 GW is the equivalent power of 278,000 cars driving at highway speed. Even if these gas generators are cleaner (we don’t know because they are not regulated or measured), that is an insane amount of exhaust to locate near residential areas.
      - WarmWash 5d ago
        If you're gonna change the subject to global CO2, I can go ahead and change the subject to meat production, or using AC, or flying in airplanes because surely the high horse you're trying to ride on can only carry an AC free low impact vegan, right? You gotta scale a lot of mountains before you can come down on DC emissions...
- runako 5d ago
  > Water vapor? The stuff we drink? This is really obnoxious coming as people are still missing after historic flooding in Asia (via lots of concentrated water vapor, I guess).

Geof25 5d ago

Pollution happens when you don't have enough power in the grid so you will bring either diesel generators or methane turbines to make power. Also noise is pollution too.

SoftTalker 5d ago
With diesel over $6/gallon now that's probably not too attractive. Natural gas probably more likely, and less polluting at least as far as particulates go. CO2 still created. Are all new data centers being built with on-site power generation (for regular operations, not just emergency backup)? I'd assume they'd prefer utility power where they could get it.
burnt-resistor 5d ago
Diesel generators are mostly for emergencies. Natural gas turbines (many of which are or are derived from jumbo jet engines) are for on-prem power generation.

georgemcbay 5d ago

> Second, why is the article trying so hard to make datacenters out as racist? AI Datacenters are classist. Because of their negative externalities they will always be constructed near the poor who have the least political power. Humans are racist. So there is a strong systemic correlation between that group of disenfranchised people and people of color. The most directly harmful impacts of datacenters are racist, transitively.

precision1k 5d ago
[flagged]
- georgemcbay 5d ago
  The pre-AI datacenters where you live are very different than the Colossus-style methane turbine and inadequately soundproofed AI datacenters that are being built today.
  - precision1k 5d ago
    No, they're not. The data center buildout in Loudoun County has not stopped. They're continuing to build them out. They're getting bigger and more pervasive everywhere. It is my intention to eventually move out of the county because they're an eyesore and they've swallowed up just about every bit of available land here. The point I was making to the original poster is that datacenters are not "transitively racist". They are built in both wealthy and poor areas.
- datsci_est_2015 5d ago
  > Your idea that datacenters are racists transitively is woke slop. Your knee jerk reaction to refer to something as “woke slop” belies your privileged distance from anything remotely resembling hardship (I LiVe iN LoUdOuN) and an underdeveloped sense of empathy. Anyway, we should be extremely skeptical of how infrastructure is built out in the US because of historical baggage. Poverty and industrial development create a vicious cycle that leads people to walk around with their thumb in their ass and claim that the poors just aren’t pulling themselves up by their bootstraps hard enough.

forshaper 5d ago

We're in a county with a coal plant and an oil refinery. Somehow people are more concerned about potential data center pollution.

tzs 5d ago

Read up on Musk's Tennessee data center for an example of the kind of pollution under discussion.