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Maybe but this is unexpected if you need to restore from a backup..
by winstonwinston 6d ago
Maybe but this is unexpected if you need to restore from a backup..
- __MatrixMan__ 6d agoDon't backup keys, rotate them.
- gavinsyancey 6d agoI can't rotate my keys if I lose access to accounts because my computer died and my backup is useless.
- __MatrixMan__ 6d agoYeah, that's why secure enclaves embedded in complex devices are a bad idea. Hardware keys are the way: - Less likely to fail in the first place - Cheap enough to have several of so you can use one to log in and manage the others in the event of loss - Easy to move between devices - Less likely to use the auth handshake as a side channel for things you didn't consent to
- pmontra 6d agoCan you clone or sync hardware keys? Maybe they don't fail as much as computers do but they can be lost or stolen like the keys that we use to open (dumb) doors. My non hardware key is a keypass file that I update only on my laptop and I sync to my other devices. I have plenty of backups. It does also the TOTP required to login into some customers servers.
- mingus88 6d agoI have a few yubikeys and it’s a manual process to sync a new key last time I tried I keep all my TOTP keys on an encrypted usb drive in a safe. When I lose a key, I manually add all the TOTP accounts onto the new key from my safe Passkeys are a different story. Every account I need to make sure I have multiple yubikeys registered. When I lose one, I get in via a second key and then add the replacement one. It’s a pain but it’s a model that makes sense to me. Lose the key? Time to reach for my backup key.
- __MatrixMan__ 5d agoYeah it feels pretty dumb to have to register all of my keys with each service, but as far as I can tell it's the least dumb thing.
- petronic 6d agoI've done Tahoe-to-Tahoe migration assistant moves between machines in recent months. No issues with login keychain migration.
- winstonwinston 6d agoBut that’s not backup restore? I’m thinking Time Machine restore on a new Mac when old one is no longer working. Or when the old one had to be wiped and restored.
- lapcat 6d agoMigration Assistant uses the old Mac, which can unlock its login keychain and allow the keychain items to be copied.
- pmontra 6d agoWhat if the old Mac is dead, stolen, lost? Those are the scenarios in which one recovers on a new machine from a backup.
- lapcat 6d agoThen you're in trouble.
- awakeasleep 6d agoWhat information from your login keychain do you expect to need on your new computer? There's not really a plausible answer to that question, because the login keychain data is almost entirely specific to that host. To iron-man your argument: Apps that store account credentials to third party services will need to be signed in again. If you were using http basic auth for a website and saving that, then it was probably in there. Private keys and certificates you manually imported, or that were created by an application for your host. This is the closest to a plausible answer, imo.
- kelnos 5d ago
- ryandrake 6d agoIt's unexpected to anyone with intuition about how a computer traditionally is supposed to work. As a general principle, as a user, I expect a file on one computer to be usable on another computer. Or, at the very least, if I need to obtain some other thing from the original computer to "unlock" that file, I should be able to do it. The idea of a file that is only usable on a particular computer feels weird.
- GeekyBear 6d ago> As a general principle, as a user, I expect a file on one computer to be usable on another computer. As a general rule, I expect a file on an encrypted disk to be unreadable for anyone who lacks the encryption key(s). > if I need to obtain some other thing from the original computer to "unlock" that file, I should be able to do it. You can export your passwords to a plain text CSV from the original computer.
- shaky-carrousel 6d agoAs a general rule, I expect a file on an encrypted disk to be encrypted with a key derived from a password I provide.
- wtallis 6d agoI think it's time to update your expectations. Hardware security modules have been around for quite a while. You shouldn't assume that your chosen password is the only input to the key derivation, or even that the raw key itself will always be obtainable.
- shaky-carrousel 6d agoI never assumed that my chosen password was the only input to the key derivation. Just that my chosen password is at least one of the inputs to the key derivation. LUKS has been around for quite a while.
- wl 6d agoIt's also unexpected when you send your laptop in for a screen replacement, the tech does an unnecessary logic board swap while he's at it, and your local keychain doesn't work anymore. And then Apple Support will say, hey, we told you you needed to backup your data! Which you did, but that's not the issue. Use iCloud Keychain or don't use Keychain at all.
- frizlab 6d agoOr create a separate keychain db and use that. The encryption is only done for the login keychain.
- adastra22 5d agoI've learned to not trust Apple support on anything. My daughter's Watch screen cracked and we sent it in for a replacement. To setup the replacement though, they requried that she unpair then repair the watch then-and-there. They said she wouldn't lose any data, that it just disconnected it from the phone. Nope, unpairing is a complete reset apparently. And Apple Support was apparently not trained to know that not everything syncs in the backup. She lost all her voice memos, which she uses for class notes, and probably other app data as well.