7 ms·

Every rule has an exception. Beware of this advice on zfs, for instance. Meanwhile zswap (of no relation with zfs) is free performance. Is it a rule that every

Every rule has an exception. Beware of this advice on zfs, for instance. Meanwhile zswap (of no relation with zfs) is free performance. Is it a rule that everything starting with a 'z' must be cool?

deleted 6d ago
[deleted]
optionalsquid 6d ago
It also doesn't sound like a particularly good idea on BTRFS, judging by the linked documentation: https://btrfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Swapfile.html https://btrfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Swapfile.html
- fc417fc802 6d ago
  And since you should probably be running a modern CoW filesystem then you probably shouldn't be using swapfiles ... is the conclusion I arrived at anyway. Either install multiple times more RAM than you need and enable zswap or else set aside a swap partition as has always been done.
  - jenders 6d ago
    Truth be told—- I don’t use swap and set `vm.swappiness=0` but in these difficult times, swap may be the hero we need.
- jeroenhd 5d ago
  Swapfiles on BTRFS seem to work great if you allocate them early (with the command linked in your article) and put them in a different subvolume than the rest of your system. BTRFS in general seems more I/O constrained than ext4 or xfs so it's probably still worse to put a swapfile on a BTRFS partition, but so far my systems are doing fine.
  - cesarb 4d ago
    > BTRFS in general seems more I/O constrained than ext4 or xfs so it's probably still worse to put a swapfile on a BTRFS partition, AFAIK, on Linux swap bypasses the filesystem. It asks the filesystem for the extents which are used by the swapfile, and does the I/O directly on the block device. This explains the many restrictions swapfiles have on btrfs (the file can't be copy-on-write, can't be mirrored, etc), but it also means the speed for a swapfile will be the same on btrfs as on ext4 or xfs (assuming a similar layout, that is, the file is not too fragmented; IIRC, the kernel prints the number of extents when you do a swapon, so you can see when it's too fragmented).
jenders 6d ago
That’s a good call out. I’ve never used ZFS on root. Been a ZFS user on Linux since the FUSE days but it has never seemed particular well suited (O_DIRECT support came late, ARC/page cache redundancy, etc). I can’t guarantee a consistent enough workload to optimize ZFS for and I don’t feel like it’s general purpose enough. Large object storage though? I’m sitting on a PB of ZFS.
jck86 6d ago
zswap indeed is the real magic almost silver bullet nowadays. Device backed swap is often not needed anymore and it solves a lot of the issues with freezing under memory pressure, though it may not be ideal for servers. And if I have a separate otherwise unused ssd then using a swap partition simply is easier than creating a file system for it and mounting it somewhere. Block level backups also are easier. What would be nice about swap files is if they could dynamically grow and shrink without a special setup. Way too many variables on Linux for a one size fits all.
chuckadams 5d ago
> Is it a rule that everything starting with a 'z' must be cool? They tend to be the last word on the subject :)

Every rule has an exception. Beware of this advice on zfs, for instance. Meanwhile zswap (of no relation with zfs) is free performance. Is it a rule that everything starting with a 'z' must be cool?

deleted 6d ago

[deleted]

optionalsquid 6d ago

It also doesn't sound like a particularly good idea on BTRFS, judging by the linked documentation: https://btrfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Swapfile.html https://btrfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Swapfile.html

fc417fc802 6d ago
And since you should probably be running a modern CoW filesystem then you probably shouldn't be using swapfiles ... is the conclusion I arrived at anyway. Either install multiple times more RAM than you need and enable zswap or else set aside a swap partition as has always been done.
- jenders 6d ago
  Truth be told—- I don’t use swap and set `vm.swappiness=0` but in these difficult times, swap may be the hero we need.
jeroenhd 5d ago
Swapfiles on BTRFS seem to work great if you allocate them early (with the command linked in your article) and put them in a different subvolume than the rest of your system. BTRFS in general seems more I/O constrained than ext4 or xfs so it's probably still worse to put a swapfile on a BTRFS partition, but so far my systems are doing fine.
- cesarb 4d ago
  > BTRFS in general seems more I/O constrained than ext4 or xfs so it's probably still worse to put a swapfile on a BTRFS partition, AFAIK, on Linux swap bypasses the filesystem. It asks the filesystem for the extents which are used by the swapfile, and does the I/O directly on the block device. This explains the many restrictions swapfiles have on btrfs (the file can't be copy-on-write, can't be mirrored, etc), but it also means the speed for a swapfile will be the same on btrfs as on ext4 or xfs (assuming a similar layout, that is, the file is not too fragmented; IIRC, the kernel prints the number of extents when you do a swapon, so you can see when it's too fragmented).

jenders 6d ago

That’s a good call out. I’ve never used ZFS on root. Been a ZFS user on Linux since the FUSE days but it has never seemed particular well suited (O_DIRECT support came late, ARC/page cache redundancy, etc). I can’t guarantee a consistent enough workload to optimize ZFS for and I don’t feel like it’s general purpose enough. Large object storage though? I’m sitting on a PB of ZFS.

jck86 6d ago

zswap indeed is the real magic almost silver bullet nowadays. Device backed swap is often not needed anymore and it solves a lot of the issues with freezing under memory pressure, though it may not be ideal for servers. And if I have a separate otherwise unused ssd then using a swap partition simply is easier than creating a file system for it and mounting it somewhere. Block level backups also are easier. What would be nice about swap files is if they could dynamically grow and shrink without a special setup. Way too many variables on Linux for a one size fits all.

chuckadams 5d ago

> Is it a rule that everything starting with a 'z' must be cool? They tend to be the last word on the subject :)