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> It's why only software like text editors and web browsers gets to be really good. Huge user base. Lots of developers involved. There's lots of great software

by addaon 6d ago

> It's why only software like text editors and web browsers gets to be really good. Huge user base. Lots of developers involved. There's lots of great software out there that you interact with every day that was written by a small number of developers to clear requirements. Your car ABS brakes. Your coffee maker. Your brushless drill. Your TV remote. Think of the fact that majority of the microprocessors and microcontrollers that you interact with every day have software that you never think about, because it just works and gets out of the way. (And think of the cases -- maybe your dishwasher, your smoke detector, whatever -- where that's not the case! It really drives home how incredibly pleasant just-works-without-thought really is.) It's only these big, large team, overly complex systems where the expectations are so low that even the crap that is a current web browser is considered acceptable, let along "not sucking."

da_chicken 6d ago
You're mistaking shitty software for software that doesn't work. Shitty software is 100% functional. You just hate it. By intentionally picking the software that eliminates the UI, when the whole benefit of computers as a tool is that the UI is infinitely flexible, you're picking shitty software that doesn't appear that shitty. But it still is. I mean, I hate the way my TV remote works and have wanted to change it. But I can't. It has buttons that open NetFlix or Apple TV that I can't change, and I don't have any ability to reprogram them because the companies paid for it to be a permanent advertisement I can't get rid of. That sucks. But also, I think we only have to look far for what shitty appliance software looks like. VCRs and microwaves are notorious for having shitty software. As soon as we introduce a network, suddenly the software sucking is an immediate problem: witness the nightmare stories of Jeep updates, Tesla lockouts, and paywall feature locks when the hardware is present. Or we can look at the spying done by LG that you can't turn off. Or the forced advertising that Samsung showed they can do to your fridge. Or how automobiles need an OBD reader even thought they ship with a built-in tablet. Or how the OBD codes are something you have to pay for. Or how you might not be able to disable the stupid "shut the car off" feature when you stop at a red light. Shitty software on microcontrollers is some of the most tyrannical shitty software there is.
- addaon 6d ago
  > when the whole benefit of computers as a tool is that the UI is infinitely flexible I think this statement is insane. The benefit of computers is that they allow complex behaviors to be defined and implemented. The benefit of software is that it’s the lowest-NRE way of defining those complex behaviors. UI doesn’t come into it, except in a few edge cases like desktop computers, phones, appliances, etc. A climate model’s “benefit” comes from its output, not the form in which it generates output or takes input.
  - da_chicken 6d ago
    Okay, I don't really feel like your going for a good faith interpretation of the points I'm trying to make. You're taking things hyper literally and out of context. I don't feel like you're really trying to understand what I'm saying at all.

by addaon 6d ago

da_chicken 6d ago

You're mistaking shitty software for software that doesn't work. Shitty software is 100% functional. You just hate it. By intentionally picking the software that eliminates the UI, when the whole benefit of computers as a tool is that the UI is infinitely flexible, you're picking shitty software that doesn't appear that shitty. But it still is. I mean, I hate the way my TV remote works and have wanted to change it. But I can't. It has buttons that open NetFlix or Apple TV that I can't change, and I don't have any ability to reprogram them because the companies paid for it to be a permanent advertisement I can't get rid of. That sucks. But also, I think we only have to look far for what shitty appliance software looks like. VCRs and microwaves are notorious for having shitty software. As soon as we introduce a network, suddenly the software sucking is an immediate problem: witness the nightmare stories of Jeep updates, Tesla lockouts, and paywall feature locks when the hardware is present. Or we can look at the spying done by LG that you can't turn off. Or the forced advertising that Samsung showed they can do to your fridge. Or how automobiles need an OBD reader even thought they ship with a built-in tablet. Or how the OBD codes are something you have to pay for. Or how you might not be able to disable the stupid "shut the car off" feature when you stop at a red light. Shitty software on microcontrollers is some of the most tyrannical shitty software there is.

addaon 6d ago
> when the whole benefit of computers as a tool is that the UI is infinitely flexible I think this statement is insane. The benefit of computers is that they allow complex behaviors to be defined and implemented. The benefit of software is that it’s the lowest-NRE way of defining those complex behaviors. UI doesn’t come into it, except in a few edge cases like desktop computers, phones, appliances, etc. A climate model’s “benefit” comes from its output, not the form in which it generates output or takes input.
- da_chicken 6d ago
  Okay, I don't really feel like your going for a good faith interpretation of the points I'm trying to make. You're taking things hyper literally and out of context. I don't feel like you're really trying to understand what I'm saying at all.