8 ms·

It would have to be the 2nd option. Who in their right mind would voluntarily choose Windows as their dev env? It will have to be those who are already there.

by isolay 6d ago

bluGill 6d ago
Most people don't have a choice. Corporate IT has choosen what I run my machine on. I have used a native linux machine, but since my email is still on outlook, everybody uses teams, and all the non-code documents are on windows I end up having to have a windows machine. Linux in a VM under windows ends up being the easiest workflow (though I'm just starting to try WSL and so far it is looking good)
- disgruntledphd2 6d ago
  > (though I'm just starting to try WSL and so far it is looking good) WSL is really nice, as is Windows Terminal. I particularly love its fonts (but that's probably just me).
  - throwaway85825 6d ago
    Did they ever fix terminal performance?
    - ocdtrekkie 6d ago
      I think just running cmd still uses much less memory but Terminal is much, much faster than it was.
    - peterfirefly 6d ago
      Mostly, yes. They didn't really apologize for the abuse they sent towards Muratori but they did essentially wind up with the architecture he proposed.
- philwelch 6d ago
  Outlook and Teams are both web apps, or at least they were when I last used them. Even if you download the "native" app it's just Electron. I haven't had trouble using either of them on Linux.
  - bluGill 6d ago
    Outlook is native. There is the new web version that it says don't use (yet)
    - tcfhgj 6d ago
      Which sends your login data straight to microsoft
neutronicus 6d ago
Visual Studio brings a lot to the table for C++ development. Specifically the Debugger, although IntelliSense also often succeeds at queries that stump clangd. If they can replicate that capability, I think it can be a draw. I was a mac / Linux guy before my current gig, but Visual Studio is so much more capable than XCode that I basically only use the Windows machine except to debug mac-specific issues. Less so, now, admittedly, that the malware scanner process is literally always pegging a CPU core.
vouwfietsman 6d ago
This kind of stuff is why its hard to have good conversations about tooling. Windows is the best place for many kinds of software dev, but perhaps not the kind you are doing.
- rafterydj 6d ago
  When it is not the mandated option, under what circumstances is Windows the best choice for software dev? The only domain I can think of is gaming, and Valve is seemingly coming up fast to eat Microsoft's lunch in the next few years.
  - dwattttt 6d ago
    Valve is certainly increasing the viability of Linux as a platform for gaming, but I can't see developers targeting Wine or Linux for a major game over Windows directly. Not for a decade, if ever.
  - pjmlp 6d ago
    Game development, graphics programming and GUI tooling. The alternative being macOS, if Apple actually had competitive prices for all kinds of world economies.
  - vouwfietsman 6d ago
    As mentioned: gaming, most of enterprise dev, graphics/gpu/cad, desktop, certain classes of embedded. Broadly speaking, outside of hacker/web/creative culture, the default is windows. Regardless of how evil gigantic companies can be, or what the ideal world should look like: from a pure usability perspective, windows is top of the list. If I got 5$ every time a linux/mac enthousiasts has to tell me they just cannot run something, and proposing a myriad of workarounds to stick to their ideology, I could buy an apple vision pro and let it collect dust in the corner of my basement.
    - rafterydj 5d ago
      No disagreements on things not working right on Mac/Linux, it's definitely a frustration! I would argue against the idea that it's the default for most enterprise dev. What you refer to as creative/web culture I would refer to as a newer generation of enterprise dev written in (I know) JS, TS, Electron etc. There is a lot of cross platform stuff out there, at least for clients, and Linux has taken up a lot of ground in the server market as well. With CAD and GPU programming you have a point - proprietary drivers written for Windows has more technical sticking power. I guess my feeling is that, especially with all the headlines saying European countries will move away from American software giants, Windows seems less attractive as a long term target for investing my time. Not to mention it's buggy and slow these days.
pjmlp 6d ago
Plenty of us do, so far Valve has failed to make native builds for Linux appealing for game studios, even though they already have to deal with similar APIs on Android, iDevices and PS/Switch.

It would have to be the 2nd option. Who in their right mind would voluntarily choose Windows as their dev env? It will have to be those who are already there.

by isolay 6d ago

It would have to be the 2nd option. Who in their right mind would voluntarily choose Windows as their dev env? It will have to be those who are already there.

bluGill 6d ago

Most people don't have a choice. Corporate IT has choosen what I run my machine on. I have used a native linux machine, but since my email is still on outlook, everybody uses teams, and all the non-code documents are on windows I end up having to have a windows machine. Linux in a VM under windows ends up being the easiest workflow (though I'm just starting to try WSL and so far it is looking good)

disgruntledphd2 6d ago
> (though I'm just starting to try WSL and so far it is looking good) WSL is really nice, as is Windows Terminal. I particularly love its fonts (but that's probably just me).
- throwaway85825 6d ago
  Did they ever fix terminal performance?
  - ocdtrekkie 6d ago
    I think just running cmd still uses much less memory but Terminal is much, much faster than it was.
  - peterfirefly 6d ago
    Mostly, yes. They didn't really apologize for the abuse they sent towards Muratori but they did essentially wind up with the architecture he proposed.
philwelch 6d ago
Outlook and Teams are both web apps, or at least they were when I last used them. Even if you download the "native" app it's just Electron. I haven't had trouble using either of them on Linux.
- bluGill 6d ago
  Outlook is native. There is the new web version that it says don't use (yet)
  - tcfhgj 6d ago
    Which sends your login data straight to microsoft

neutronicus 6d ago

Visual Studio brings a lot to the table for C++ development. Specifically the Debugger, although IntelliSense also often succeeds at queries that stump clangd. If they can replicate that capability, I think it can be a draw. I was a mac / Linux guy before my current gig, but Visual Studio is so much more capable than XCode that I basically only use the Windows machine except to debug mac-specific issues. Less so, now, admittedly, that the malware scanner process is literally always pegging a CPU core.

vouwfietsman 6d ago

This kind of stuff is why its hard to have good conversations about tooling. Windows is the best place for many kinds of software dev, but perhaps not the kind you are doing.

rafterydj 6d ago
When it is not the mandated option, under what circumstances is Windows the best choice for software dev? The only domain I can think of is gaming, and Valve is seemingly coming up fast to eat Microsoft's lunch in the next few years.
- dwattttt 6d ago
  Valve is certainly increasing the viability of Linux as a platform for gaming, but I can't see developers targeting Wine or Linux for a major game over Windows directly. Not for a decade, if ever.
- pjmlp 6d ago
  Game development, graphics programming and GUI tooling. The alternative being macOS, if Apple actually had competitive prices for all kinds of world economies.
- vouwfietsman 6d ago
  As mentioned: gaming, most of enterprise dev, graphics/gpu/cad, desktop, certain classes of embedded. Broadly speaking, outside of hacker/web/creative culture, the default is windows. Regardless of how evil gigantic companies can be, or what the ideal world should look like: from a pure usability perspective, windows is top of the list. If I got 5$ every time a linux/mac enthousiasts has to tell me they just cannot run something, and proposing a myriad of workarounds to stick to their ideology, I could buy an apple vision pro and let it collect dust in the corner of my basement.
  - rafterydj 5d ago
    No disagreements on things not working right on Mac/Linux, it's definitely a frustration! I would argue against the idea that it's the default for most enterprise dev. What you refer to as creative/web culture I would refer to as a newer generation of enterprise dev written in (I know) JS, TS, Electron etc. There is a lot of cross platform stuff out there, at least for clients, and Linux has taken up a lot of ground in the server market as well. With CAD and GPU programming you have a point - proprietary drivers written for Windows has more technical sticking power. I guess my feeling is that, especially with all the headlines saying European countries will move away from American software giants, Windows seems less attractive as a long term target for investing my time. Not to mention it's buggy and slow these days.

pjmlp 6d ago

Plenty of us do, so far Valve has failed to make native builds for Linux appealing for game studios, even though they already have to deal with similar APIs on Android, iDevices and PS/Switch.