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I mean every time that Kojima made a game it turned out to be something that people talk about for years on. But the second it gets slightly more ambitious inve

I mean every time that Kojima made a game it turned out to be something that people talk about for years on. But the second it gets slightly more ambitious investors get their panties in the knot about it even though throughout history Kojima's products made a massive return. This split will also, in my opinion, lead to Kojima losing access to Decima engine, which sucks in a whole different way.

IslandRebel 6d ago
I never bothered Death Stranding and everything after MGS-3 has been very meh IMO. He didn't really want to make MGS 4 & 5. MGS 3 itself while an excellent game overstays it welcome after you defeat "The End" IMO. The games that he is well known for at this point are really 20+ years old.
- pizzalife 6d ago
  I totally disagree. Death Stranding was groundbreaking in many ways.
  - froh42 6d ago
    Yes. And DS2 was somehow boring. It felt like a DLC for DS.
    - bluefirebrand 6d ago
      I don't really understand when people find more of a good game to be boring. It's ok to take a break if you're tired of the formula or whatever but I dunno To me it seems like saying "oh no, not another delicious steak today, I couldn't possibly" I guess people just prefer more novelty than I do?
      - embedding-shape 6d ago
        People gotten used to the idea of "Same as existing but more/small additions" should actually be a DLC/addon, not worthy of incrementing the number and being a successor. For those, you need to completely change the entire thing to something else, then people are fine, and it's a hit/miss if the existing players like it. Otherwise people feel like the parent, that it's just slightly different than before but incrementally improved, and should therefore be a DLC.
      - BoingBoomTschak 6d ago
        Would you say the same about more obviously artistic mediums? "Oh, their second album sounds exactly like their first which I liked!" isn't a compliment, usually.
        bluefirebrand 6d ago
        I mean, yes? My favorite band started experimenting with different sounds and genres and while I still like their old stuff I don't care for their new stuff much I would love if they made more that sounded like their old stuff. Obviously it's their art and I don't begrudge them doing their own thing, but it was a bummer when I listened to it and felt it was no longer for me.
        bigstrat2003 6d ago
        Yeah, of course I would. If I like a given artist's work, I want more work which is like that. I don't begrudge artists who want to do new things, but "it's just like his old work" is IMO high praise, not a valid criticism.
        BoingBoomTschak 6d ago
        There's "just like" and "just like". Understanding what allows you to stand out and making sure you don't throw it away is important, but so is avoiding stagnation. After all, creation is the essence of art. Even if the succeeding effort is just adding polish and streamlining your previous sound, it's something different in my books. In any case, in all the music discussion I've been, "artist that keeps making the same album" has always been a strong criticism very much like "one trick pony".
      - OroPla 6d ago
        Take Wolfenstein 3D (1992) as an example. Genre defining game, no question. Spear of Destiny (also 1992) is not only more of the same game, but an entire new game worth of new content. Great, but it's not part of any conversation. Then came Doom (1993). Genre defining game all over again, no question. On the other hand, you have Death Stranding (2019) and Death Stranding 2 (2025). Why did it take six years to make more of the same game?
  - IslandRebel 6d ago
    How did it break ground exactly? I like MGS 1,2 and 3. I saw nothing particularly interesting about Death Stranding. I've seen friends playing it and still didn't really look that interesting.
- deleted 6d ago
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- proxysna 6d ago
  He didn't really want to make MGS4 and MGS5 and then still made successful games. Death Stranding franchise is one of the "games that he is well known for" and it is most def not 20+ years old. Dont see your point.
  - IslandRebel 6d ago
    > He didn't really want to make MGS4 and MGS5 and then still made successful games MGS4 and MGS5 were successful but I don't think they were really that good compared to the other games. I am certainly not alone when it comes to thinking that. The vast majority of praise goes to MGS2 and 3 these days. I think the original MGS should get more praise as it has the better story and at the time it really pushed what was possible. > Death Stranding franchise is one of the "games that he is well known for" and it is most def not 20+ years old. It isn't nearly as well respected as MGS 1-3. Metal Gear Solid 3 came out in 2004. > Dont see your point. The point is that Kojima work these days isn't nearly as much of a draw as it once was. If fans of the original MGS games like myself aren't that interested in his newer stuff that says quite a lot. Metal Gear Solid as far as I am concerned ended after I finished 3.
- butlike 6d ago
  To add on to what you're saying: he didn't really want to make MGS3 either. I believe he said in a Game Informer interview from 2001 that he wanted 2 to be the final chapter. I might be getting my source wrong.
walrus01 6d ago
> something that people talk about for years on In the case of MGS4 and MGS5, because they're weirdly horny... Like, MGS5 was a good game, but you can't tell me that Kojima doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about bikini clad snipers.
- bluefirebrand 6d ago
  Which is probably fine because the target demographic for those games probably loves bikini clad snipers
  - walrus01 6d ago
    I think the other trademark is Kojima, when he's not being weirdly horny, is just "supernatural and weird". Like the other stuff with the floating boy/psycho mantis, man on fire, parasite unit. When you've got the weirdly horny and supernatural mashed together, it's either a Kojima game or some variant of Biohazard (Resident Evil).
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 6d ago
      My overriding thought would be, ridiculously convoluted story, which maybe-sorta kinda works by some insane internal logic. More like the author thought X would be cool, with no thought of downstream ramifications to a coherent plot. If you have never seen this summary of the Metal Gear series, buckle up: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aaLiLRVeaZA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aaLiLRVeaZA
      - walrus01 6d ago
        If it fits in 6 minutes it's not so convoluted, there's a guy who made a (10 hour?) video trying to explain all the lore and story of Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 (and all their various DLC/paid seasons). And the guy who made this apparently lost interest towards the end of Destiny 2 as a live service game so there's easily another 2-3 hours of content covering the final beats of the story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzBmOeYmN_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzBmOeYmN_M But I agree the overall story/timeline of all MGS games taken as a whole is really wild. It's definitely quite something.
vor_ 6d ago
> I mean every time that Kojima made a game it turned out to be something that people talk about for years on. But the second it gets slightly more ambitious investors get their panties in the knot about it even though throughout history Kojima's products made a massive return. Death Stranding 2 didn't do all that well. I don't think his games after MGS3 are as highly regarded.

IslandRebel 6d ago

I never bothered Death Stranding and everything after MGS-3 has been very meh IMO. He didn't really want to make MGS 4 & 5. MGS 3 itself while an excellent game overstays it welcome after you defeat "The End" IMO. The games that he is well known for at this point are really 20+ years old.

pizzalife 6d ago
I totally disagree. Death Stranding was groundbreaking in many ways.
- froh42 6d ago
  Yes. And DS2 was somehow boring. It felt like a DLC for DS.
  - bluefirebrand 6d ago
    I don't really understand when people find more of a good game to be boring. It's ok to take a break if you're tired of the formula or whatever but I dunno To me it seems like saying "oh no, not another delicious steak today, I couldn't possibly" I guess people just prefer more novelty than I do?
    - embedding-shape 6d ago
      People gotten used to the idea of "Same as existing but more/small additions" should actually be a DLC/addon, not worthy of incrementing the number and being a successor. For those, you need to completely change the entire thing to something else, then people are fine, and it's a hit/miss if the existing players like it. Otherwise people feel like the parent, that it's just slightly different than before but incrementally improved, and should therefore be a DLC.
    - BoingBoomTschak 6d ago
      Would you say the same about more obviously artistic mediums? "Oh, their second album sounds exactly like their first which I liked!" isn't a compliment, usually.
      - bluefirebrand 6d ago
        I mean, yes? My favorite band started experimenting with different sounds and genres and while I still like their old stuff I don't care for their new stuff much I would love if they made more that sounded like their old stuff. Obviously it's their art and I don't begrudge them doing their own thing, but it was a bummer when I listened to it and felt it was no longer for me.
      - bigstrat2003 6d ago
        Yeah, of course I would. If I like a given artist's work, I want more work which is like that. I don't begrudge artists who want to do new things, but "it's just like his old work" is IMO high praise, not a valid criticism.
        BoingBoomTschak 6d ago
        There's "just like" and "just like". Understanding what allows you to stand out and making sure you don't throw it away is important, but so is avoiding stagnation. After all, creation is the essence of art. Even if the succeeding effort is just adding polish and streamlining your previous sound, it's something different in my books. In any case, in all the music discussion I've been, "artist that keeps making the same album" has always been a strong criticism very much like "one trick pony".
    - OroPla 6d ago
      Take Wolfenstein 3D (1992) as an example. Genre defining game, no question. Spear of Destiny (also 1992) is not only more of the same game, but an entire new game worth of new content. Great, but it's not part of any conversation. Then came Doom (1993). Genre defining game all over again, no question. On the other hand, you have Death Stranding (2019) and Death Stranding 2 (2025). Why did it take six years to make more of the same game?
- IslandRebel 6d ago
  How did it break ground exactly? I like MGS 1,2 and 3. I saw nothing particularly interesting about Death Stranding. I've seen friends playing it and still didn't really look that interesting.
deleted 6d ago
[deleted]
proxysna 6d ago
He didn't really want to make MGS4 and MGS5 and then still made successful games. Death Stranding franchise is one of the "games that he is well known for" and it is most def not 20+ years old. Dont see your point.
- IslandRebel 6d ago
  > He didn't really want to make MGS4 and MGS5 and then still made successful games MGS4 and MGS5 were successful but I don't think they were really that good compared to the other games. I am certainly not alone when it comes to thinking that. The vast majority of praise goes to MGS2 and 3 these days. I think the original MGS should get more praise as it has the better story and at the time it really pushed what was possible. > Death Stranding franchise is one of the "games that he is well known for" and it is most def not 20+ years old. It isn't nearly as well respected as MGS 1-3. Metal Gear Solid 3 came out in 2004. > Dont see your point. The point is that Kojima work these days isn't nearly as much of a draw as it once was. If fans of the original MGS games like myself aren't that interested in his newer stuff that says quite a lot. Metal Gear Solid as far as I am concerned ended after I finished 3.
butlike 6d ago
To add on to what you're saying: he didn't really want to make MGS3 either. I believe he said in a Game Informer interview from 2001 that he wanted 2 to be the final chapter. I might be getting my source wrong.

walrus01 6d ago

> something that people talk about for years on In the case of MGS4 and MGS5, because they're weirdly horny... Like, MGS5 was a good game, but you can't tell me that Kojima doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about bikini clad snipers.

bluefirebrand 6d ago
Which is probably fine because the target demographic for those games probably loves bikini clad snipers
- walrus01 6d ago
  I think the other trademark is Kojima, when he's not being weirdly horny, is just "supernatural and weird". Like the other stuff with the floating boy/psycho mantis, man on fire, parasite unit. When you've got the weirdly horny and supernatural mashed together, it's either a Kojima game or some variant of Biohazard (Resident Evil).
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 6d ago
    My overriding thought would be, ridiculously convoluted story, which maybe-sorta kinda works by some insane internal logic. More like the author thought X would be cool, with no thought of downstream ramifications to a coherent plot. If you have never seen this summary of the Metal Gear series, buckle up: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aaLiLRVeaZA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aaLiLRVeaZA
    - walrus01 6d ago
      If it fits in 6 minutes it's not so convoluted, there's a guy who made a (10 hour?) video trying to explain all the lore and story of Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 (and all their various DLC/paid seasons). And the guy who made this apparently lost interest towards the end of Destiny 2 as a live service game so there's easily another 2-3 hours of content covering the final beats of the story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzBmOeYmN_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzBmOeYmN_M But I agree the overall story/timeline of all MGS games taken as a whole is really wild. It's definitely quite something.

vor_ 6d ago

> I mean every time that Kojima made a game it turned out to be something that people talk about for years on. But the second it gets slightly more ambitious investors get their panties in the knot about it even though throughout history Kojima's products made a massive return. Death Stranding 2 didn't do all that well. I don't think his games after MGS3 are as highly regarded.