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What if my grandmother was a bicycle? None of these change the fact that voting for a system to move resources from others to yourself is self serving. You can

What if my grandmother was a bicycle? None of these change the fact that voting for a system to move resources from others to yourself is self serving. You can debate whether it's justifiable or not, but it is self serving by definition.

Timon3 7d ago
Oh, I fully agree! Unfortunately many people reduce other people's inner thoughts to the boolean decision "if someone has below-average resources, their decision must be motivated by moving resources from others to themselves", because they assume the "homo economicus" model to apply to most individuals. As my examples show, such a model breaks down for trivial cases. In the real world, people have much more complicated and layered reasons motivating their vote for any system. Though I'd like to ask anyone subscribing to the homo economicus view - what do you think about the position of people with above-average wealth who would vote for capitalism? Their choice is equally as self-serving, no? --- Btw, it's a bit rude to pattern-match a thought-terminating cliche followed by declaring your point of view to be objectively true.
- roarcher 7d ago
  You seem to be missing the point. The person you originally replied to said that those who vote for communism for their own personal gain are self serving. Let's call those people Group A. You then listed a bunch of people who might vote for it for some non-self-serving reason, let's call them Group B. Your comment implies that the existence of Group B makes Group A not-self-serving, when in fact it is as irrelevant to Group A's motives as my grandmother being a bicycle. > Btw, it's a bit rude to pattern-match a thought-terminating cliche followed by declaring your point of view to be objectively true. I don't even know what you're trying to say here.
  - Timon3 7d ago
    Try reading the comment I replied to once more: > If "assigning resources to everyone" is a net gain (IE the voter doesn't have resources), then yes it is self serving. It is not possible to state more clearly that: Voter has below-average resources -> voting for communism must be self-serving. I have explained that this is wrong. To stick with your example, when you choose group A based on factor X and then broadly assign motivation Y to everyone in the group, you're creating a false narrative, because group A is a superset of the people you've described.
    - roarcher 7d ago
      It's laughably naive to think that any significant number of people who vote for a system they think will personally benefit them are in fact doing so purely out of principle, and not at all because it will benefit them. However, as long as one such person exists, Group A is indeed a superset of self-serving people, and you are therefore correct in the most technical and irrelevant sense. Congratulations.
      - Timon3 7d ago
        I am truly sorry for daring to post a comment the great roarcher feels isn't relevant. Please forgive me for the harm I have caused this world.
        roarcher 7d ago
        Man what the hell are you even talking about? Nearly every one of your comments in this thread has been some sort of non-sequitur or is replying to an argument that nobody made. Your only fully coherent comment was the one with the superset idea, which boils down to "you can't say people who vote for communism and stand to gain from it are self-serving, because one of them might happen to be a saint whose only concern is the common good". I'm getting tired of having to direct the conversation back to the actual topic. It's okay to just bow out when you're wrong, you don't have to continuously derail a conversation with bullshit just because you're out of your depth. You're not fooling anyone with it.
        Timon3 7d ago
        Your only contribution to a conversation you admit to not understanding has been to stick your fingers into your ears and tell me how meaningless my point is. That's not "directing the conversation back to the actual topic" in any way. It's fine to disagree with my position! But that's not what you're doing, you're declaring my thoughts meaningless and trying to push me out of the conversation. So why don't you just move on?
        7d ago

Timon3 7d ago

Oh, I fully agree! Unfortunately many people reduce other people's inner thoughts to the boolean decision "if someone has below-average resources, their decision must be motivated by moving resources from others to themselves", because they assume the "homo economicus" model to apply to most individuals. As my examples show, such a model breaks down for trivial cases. In the real world, people have much more complicated and layered reasons motivating their vote for any system. Though I'd like to ask anyone subscribing to the homo economicus view - what do you think about the position of people with above-average wealth who would vote for capitalism? Their choice is equally as self-serving, no? --- Btw, it's a bit rude to pattern-match a thought-terminating cliche followed by declaring your point of view to be objectively true.

roarcher 7d ago
You seem to be missing the point. The person you originally replied to said that those who vote for communism for their own personal gain are self serving. Let's call those people Group A. You then listed a bunch of people who might vote for it for some non-self-serving reason, let's call them Group B. Your comment implies that the existence of Group B makes Group A not-self-serving, when in fact it is as irrelevant to Group A's motives as my grandmother being a bicycle. > Btw, it's a bit rude to pattern-match a thought-terminating cliche followed by declaring your point of view to be objectively true. I don't even know what you're trying to say here.
- Timon3 7d ago
  Try reading the comment I replied to once more: > If "assigning resources to everyone" is a net gain (IE the voter doesn't have resources), then yes it is self serving. It is not possible to state more clearly that: Voter has below-average resources -> voting for communism must be self-serving. I have explained that this is wrong. To stick with your example, when you choose group A based on factor X and then broadly assign motivation Y to everyone in the group, you're creating a false narrative, because group A is a superset of the people you've described.
  - roarcher 7d ago
    It's laughably naive to think that any significant number of people who vote for a system they think will personally benefit them are in fact doing so purely out of principle, and not at all because it will benefit them. However, as long as one such person exists, Group A is indeed a superset of self-serving people, and you are therefore correct in the most technical and irrelevant sense. Congratulations.
    - Timon3 7d ago
      I am truly sorry for daring to post a comment the great roarcher feels isn't relevant. Please forgive me for the harm I have caused this world.
      - roarcher 7d ago
        Man what the hell are you even talking about? Nearly every one of your comments in this thread has been some sort of non-sequitur or is replying to an argument that nobody made. Your only fully coherent comment was the one with the superset idea, which boils down to "you can't say people who vote for communism and stand to gain from it are self-serving, because one of them might happen to be a saint whose only concern is the common good". I'm getting tired of having to direct the conversation back to the actual topic. It's okay to just bow out when you're wrong, you don't have to continuously derail a conversation with bullshit just because you're out of your depth. You're not fooling anyone with it.
        Timon3 7d ago
        Your only contribution to a conversation you admit to not understanding has been to stick your fingers into your ears and tell me how meaningless my point is. That's not "directing the conversation back to the actual topic" in any way. It's fine to disagree with my position! But that's not what you're doing, you're declaring my thoughts meaningless and trying to push me out of the conversation. So why don't you just move on?
        7d ago