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They released a number of small iphones over the years, and those always failed to reach meaningful sales numbers. Stated vs revealed preference I guess? People

by nikanj 7d ago

They released a number of small iphones over the years, and those always failed to reach meaningful sales numbers. Stated vs revealed preference I guess? People keep picking the larger model, so the models keep getting larger

LoganDark 7d ago
I wish I could choose even thicker to get the Pro Max's battery life but with the Pro's ability to be held comfortably. You practically need two hands to take a screenshot with the Pro Max
nonethewiser 7d ago
Same with phones with replaceable batteries.
- eddieroger 7d ago
  And headphone jacks.
  - mattnewton 7d ago
    anyone with a pile of dongles disagrees here. It was clearly broken to sell AirPods
    - nikanj 7d ago
      By most Android vendors too?
      - mattnewton 7d ago
        Android flagship vendors added their own wireless earbuds as well
- drum55 7d ago
  Right, because it scratches some nostalgia thing that people have obtained osmotically. Nobody actually wants a replaceable battery that makes their phone vastly thicker and harder to waterproof, nobody wants phones that randomly catch fire because their OOPLMXC brand battery from amazon wasn’t up to snuff, nobody wants to be carrying a pocket full of extra batteries to swap all day. Devices with field replaceable batteries just sucked a lot more than people don’t remember. As much as people clamor online about how they want these things, given the option they will shy away from it because it doesn’t match the fantasy that’s been created about “what has been taken from us”.
cjonas 7d ago
I don't follow iphone products, but if it's anything like android this is because they tend to be the lower end models and are missing the features that people really want (mainly a better camera/lens setup). The top of the line models are ALWAYS the bigger phones and if your going for something budget, then you're better off with the Chinese brands for value.
- stefanfisk 7d ago
  For the iPhones, the small models were generally very capable. For example, the 13 mini was essentially identical to the regular 13 except for the physical size and battery life: https://www.apple.com/se/xc/iphone/compare?device1=IPHONE13MINI&device2=IPHONE13 https://www.apple.com/se/xc/iphone/compare?device1=IPHONE13M...
- mbreese 7d ago
  High quality camera lenses take space. That alone starts to dictate the size of the phone. Add in the desire for all day battery life, and we start talking more volume. And the fastest chips take more power, so again more battery. The best way to justify the increased size is with a bigger screen and now you’re stuck with a larger phone. Or a smaller phone that is more expensive to produce. In which case, it won’t sell well regardless. It’s easy to see how we got to this point of large phones, but it is not very clear how someone like Apple can make a significantly smaller phone and keep customers happy. As you mentioned, other vendors probably will have better luck.
  - LoganDark 7d ago
    Faster chips absolutely don't have to take more power. Apple's fastest chips tend to be some of their most power-efficient. It's sustained workload that takes power, and the faster chips just have a higher performance budget.
    - mbreese 7d ago
      [dead]
- 7d ago
rconti 7d ago
What is "meaningful"? I was listening to the Accidental Tech Podcast last week and Marco said that the iPhone Air has lower penetration, after 1 year, than EACH of the 12 mini and 13 mini _currently_ have. Among a tech audience. We just had to replace a family 13 mini and it sucks to have to go with a huge modern phone. Personally, I'd also prefer a mini if it had the best cameras.
- nikanj 7d ago
  Enough to justify major manufacturers to go through the trouble
dageshi 7d ago
I think it's because the people who want the smaller phone don't just want the smaller phone to the exclusion of everything else. Some want a flagship model, some want a mid range, some entry level... all in small form factors and they won't compromise in order to settle for the one small model that's available.
- sroussey 7d ago
  You are describing me as well, but our market size is negligible compared to to 50% of the population that throws this thing in a purse.
torstenvl 7d ago
Flatly incorrect. In 2020, the iPhone SE sold over 24 million units. In 2022, sales of iPhone mini 13, iPhone mini 12, and iPhone SE made up 12% of total iPhone sales. Thats despite intentionally nerfing every one of those models. If you look at comparable phones, the iPhone 7 and 8 (4.7") outsold the iPhone 7 Plus and 8 Plus (5.5") by significant margins. Nobody wants large phones.
- deleted 7d ago
  [deleted]
- greedo 7d ago
  Since Apple doesn't release iPhone sales figures per model, I'm suspicious about your sales metrics.
- wat10000 7d ago
  > 12% > Nobody wants large phones. Be serious. 88% of buyers chose something they don’t want? Apple is saying, “actually we hate money, so we’re not going to make a model that people want to buy”? Why is it so hard for people to accept that maybe their preference isn’t the common one?
  - torstenvl 7d ago
    If you're not going to engage in good faith then don't engage. My post is right there for anyone to read.
    - HDBaseT 7d ago
      Your command is not engaging in good faith. You seem to believe somehow if Apple produced a higher end, smaller size phone it would magically outsell the higher end larger phone, with no evidence to suggest that. The market, in both Android and iOS land has dictated larger phones are more favored. This is abundantly clear with the advent of "foldable" phone sector. On paper foldable phones make no sense, they are less resistant, more expensive and use a plastic screen, yet the market is growing year on year. I totally respect someone's opinion on a small or large phone, but even the largest iPhone is fairly easy to hold and operate using one hand. I don't have big hands.
Anechoic 7d ago
I know the general consensus is that the mini was cancelled for (relatively) low sales, but I wonder if that was due in part to the release of the SE? I got the SE 2 not because it was cheaper, but because it was smaller. At the time I was on a 2-3 year upgrade cycle, so when the 12 mini was released a couple of months later, I thought "cool, I'll upgrade to the 14 mini when it's released." Of course the mini was canceled after the 13, so I snatched up the 13 and will hold on to it until it crumbles in my hand.

by nikanj 7d ago

LoganDark 7d ago

I wish I could choose even thicker to get the Pro Max's battery life but with the Pro's ability to be held comfortably. You practically need two hands to take a screenshot with the Pro Max

nonethewiser 7d ago

Same with phones with replaceable batteries.

eddieroger 7d ago
And headphone jacks.
- mattnewton 7d ago
  anyone with a pile of dongles disagrees here. It was clearly broken to sell AirPods
  - nikanj 7d ago
    By most Android vendors too?
    - mattnewton 7d ago
      Android flagship vendors added their own wireless earbuds as well
drum55 7d ago
Right, because it scratches some nostalgia thing that people have obtained osmotically. Nobody actually wants a replaceable battery that makes their phone vastly thicker and harder to waterproof, nobody wants phones that randomly catch fire because their OOPLMXC brand battery from amazon wasn’t up to snuff, nobody wants to be carrying a pocket full of extra batteries to swap all day. Devices with field replaceable batteries just sucked a lot more than people don’t remember. As much as people clamor online about how they want these things, given the option they will shy away from it because it doesn’t match the fantasy that’s been created about “what has been taken from us”.

cjonas 7d ago

I don't follow iphone products, but if it's anything like android this is because they tend to be the lower end models and are missing the features that people really want (mainly a better camera/lens setup). The top of the line models are ALWAYS the bigger phones and if your going for something budget, then you're better off with the Chinese brands for value.

stefanfisk 7d ago
For the iPhones, the small models were generally very capable. For example, the 13 mini was essentially identical to the regular 13 except for the physical size and battery life: https://www.apple.com/se/xc/iphone/compare?device1=IPHONE13MINI&device2=IPHONE13 https://www.apple.com/se/xc/iphone/compare?device1=IPHONE13M...
mbreese 7d ago
High quality camera lenses take space. That alone starts to dictate the size of the phone. Add in the desire for all day battery life, and we start talking more volume. And the fastest chips take more power, so again more battery. The best way to justify the increased size is with a bigger screen and now you’re stuck with a larger phone. Or a smaller phone that is more expensive to produce. In which case, it won’t sell well regardless. It’s easy to see how we got to this point of large phones, but it is not very clear how someone like Apple can make a significantly smaller phone and keep customers happy. As you mentioned, other vendors probably will have better luck.
- LoganDark 7d ago
  Faster chips absolutely don't have to take more power. Apple's fastest chips tend to be some of their most power-efficient. It's sustained workload that takes power, and the faster chips just have a higher performance budget.
  - mbreese 7d ago
    [dead]
7d ago

rconti 7d ago

What is "meaningful"? I was listening to the Accidental Tech Podcast last week and Marco said that the iPhone Air has lower penetration, after 1 year, than EACH of the 12 mini and 13 mini _currently_ have. Among a tech audience. We just had to replace a family 13 mini and it sucks to have to go with a huge modern phone. Personally, I'd also prefer a mini if it had the best cameras.

nikanj 7d ago
Enough to justify major manufacturers to go through the trouble

dageshi 7d ago

I think it's because the people who want the smaller phone don't just want the smaller phone to the exclusion of everything else. Some want a flagship model, some want a mid range, some entry level... all in small form factors and they won't compromise in order to settle for the one small model that's available.

sroussey 7d ago
You are describing me as well, but our market size is negligible compared to to 50% of the population that throws this thing in a purse.

torstenvl 7d ago

Flatly incorrect. In 2020, the iPhone SE sold over 24 million units. In 2022, sales of iPhone mini 13, iPhone mini 12, and iPhone SE made up 12% of total iPhone sales. Thats despite intentionally nerfing every one of those models. If you look at comparable phones, the iPhone 7 and 8 (4.7") outsold the iPhone 7 Plus and 8 Plus (5.5") by significant margins. Nobody wants large phones.

deleted 7d ago
[deleted]
greedo 7d ago
Since Apple doesn't release iPhone sales figures per model, I'm suspicious about your sales metrics.
wat10000 7d ago
> 12% > Nobody wants large phones. Be serious. 88% of buyers chose something they don’t want? Apple is saying, “actually we hate money, so we’re not going to make a model that people want to buy”? Why is it so hard for people to accept that maybe their preference isn’t the common one?
- torstenvl 7d ago
  If you're not going to engage in good faith then don't engage. My post is right there for anyone to read.
  - HDBaseT 7d ago
    Your command is not engaging in good faith. You seem to believe somehow if Apple produced a higher end, smaller size phone it would magically outsell the higher end larger phone, with no evidence to suggest that. The market, in both Android and iOS land has dictated larger phones are more favored. This is abundantly clear with the advent of "foldable" phone sector. On paper foldable phones make no sense, they are less resistant, more expensive and use a plastic screen, yet the market is growing year on year. I totally respect someone's opinion on a small or large phone, but even the largest iPhone is fairly easy to hold and operate using one hand. I don't have big hands.

Anechoic 7d ago

I know the general consensus is that the mini was cancelled for (relatively) low sales, but I wonder if that was due in part to the release of the SE? I got the SE 2 not because it was cheaper, but because it was smaller. At the time I was on a 2-3 year upgrade cycle, so when the 12 mini was released a couple of months later, I thought "cool, I'll upgrade to the 14 mini when it's released." Of course the mini was canceled after the 13, so I snatched up the 13 and will hold on to it until it crumbles in my hand.