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Don't close your mind to new knowledge and it might just get interested! > but in Finder, you have to press command-C.” Do you see why I’m a little disappointe

by eviks 7d ago

Don't close your mind to new knowledge and it might just get interested! > but in Finder, you have to press command-C.” Do you see why I’m a little disappointed by this list? Sure I do, you're doing the lazy cut. The original quote was: > double tap C to copy file name, and tap C then tap F to copy full file path. And of course you can't do that in Finder, that's just nonsense. Now also add a few more actions: copy file name without the extension, copy the extension, copy full path quoted for pasting in your terminal - and A. You've run out of keys and modifiers, and definitely out of memory to remember which action does what B. C. D. It's actually not trivial to extend Finder in this way, and of course you can't easily change the keybinds, and of course you can't group those keybinds in a conveniently located submenu, and of course you can't assigne custom key modifiers to those menus for ease of navigation.. Also pray do tell which command-C you need to press to achieve this: > (cycle) rename file full name/name/extension There are also a few non-keybinding-related things in the list which you've conveniently ignored

klodolph 7d ago
> Don't close your mind to new knowledge and it might just get interested! Please be respectful in these conversations—I’m interested in hearing more about this, but the comments you’ve been making are emotionally charged and insulting. I’m interested to hear what file manager you’re using because it sounds like you’d hate Explorer, Nautilus, and Thunar too. Sorry for repeating the question—but I’m not going to accuse you of “conveniently ignoring” the question. Accusing someone of conveniently ignoring a question is, I don’t know, at best just rude. Don’t do that. I know that there are things that Finder is not good at, that’s fine by me. What baffles me is the comparison with Windows Explorer, and that’s why I responded, and that’s the context for my comments. If you have a comparison with a specific other file manager in mind I’d like to hear it. For my use cases, I am often sorting through large quantities of media files, so I value things like column view and Quicklook. (Copy without extension is enter, command-C. Full path 95% of the time, I am pasting into the Terminal, and so I drag it in, and the terminal automatically escapes it.)
- eviks 5d ago
  You spend more time saying you're interested than on discussing the topic of interest! And if you care about respect, don't start by trivializing the the argument > but I’m not going to accuse you of “conveniently ignoring” the question. You just have, though in a worse "passive aggressive" way that's harder to address, but also in a way that doesn't even make sense - how is focusing only on features, not apps, "convenient" for me??? It was for you because otherwise your defense of Finder doesn't work. Also it's not just one app (though primarily the list is based on Opus), some of the improvements are sprinkled across different file manager, like on Mac Marta (while being rather incomplete) has a few things I miss when using Finder. You also don't seem to know how hate sounds, I don't hate either of those apps (not even Finder). Why are you emotionally charging the conversation? > What baffles me is the comparison with Windows Explorer Then talk to the people doing the comparison! I'm not one of them, I've responded to a different point. > For my use cases, I am often sorting through large quantities of media files, so I value things like column view and Quicklook. And one of the points I raised in my comparison that is not a fake "but Cmd-C is the same as C" is the ability to customize UI to give more space to your precious media files, especially when you add various columns that have media information that can be blank or very long! Or if you value quicklook you might be interested in an embedded alternative that doesn't obscure the file list by always popping in the center instead of a dedicated panel. Or the that doesn't reset zoom on file change. Or the one that does resize whitespace to only fit the image. Or the one that doesn't waste your time and mess with your focus with animations. There is, of course, an endless list of deficiencies behind any serious workflow in Finder with better alternatives in other apps > Copy without extension is enter, command-C. Nice try, but no. That's two commands, which means you can't use a better key bind, but also the second command fails if the first one does, which it does, for example, in admin folders >Full path 95% of the time, I am pasting into the Terminal, and so I drag it in, and the t Besides having no option for the other 5% of the time, this also fails in shells using different escaping mechanism, and even in bashes it uses the ugliest escape mechanism of adding visual noise of \ for every space. Quoting was mentioned for a reason! Also dragging instead of C, Cmd-V is a big ergonomic failure Lastly, I don't think that's Finder that's doing the substandard escaping
  - 5d ago
pwinnski 5d ago
Finder is fine: not the best, not the worst. Your list seems very preference-shaped, not pointing to actually-missing features I can see. You could make a case about discoverability, but it's hard to see how letter combinations that only work within one application and no others are easily memorized. If your habits mean you spend a lot of time working with files in a UI, then memorizing double-tap C and C+F might be easy for you. Otherwise, using the same Cmd+C and Opt+Cmd+C would have the benefit of doing what it does in nearly every other program. Or, as the other responder said, dragging auto-escapes appropriately. I spend most of my time using a CLI, and I'm not claiming Finder is the best keyboard-driven file manager out there, but I will say that it's consistent, and works the way macOS works. Key combos work the way they work in every app, and holding down Opt updates the Edit menu to make it clear what would be different. You can do the most common things pretty easily and clearly, even if sometimes you have to use a mouse and right-click. There are also third-party apps for focused file management for pros, including some that use tuis, like ranger.
- eviks 5d ago
  > I spend most of my time using a CLI Yeah, it shows. > Opt+Cmd+C would have the benefit of doing what it does in nearly every other program So what do you think it does in Preview? In TextEdit? Are you not aware that you imaginary benefit doesn't exist even in the system default open file Finder window where you can't copy file path? > Finder is fine: not the best, not the worst. Very astute observation relevant to none of the things being discussed. > Your list seems very preference-shaped, not pointing to actually-missing features I can see Look closer! Besides that hard to say what you missed because you haven't said anything specific For example, what is "preference-shaped" about this missing feature > turn column view into a flat list of all files at or below the current dir for easier search > it's hard to see how letter combinations that only work within one application and no others are easily memorized It's very easy to see if you don't ignore use cases and add extra conditions. Like why does it universally have to be easy?? I mean, it doesn't even have to be easy for me, the extra convenience might be worth the effort of having to remember it > might be easy for you. Otherwise What do you mean "otherwise"? Why would you care about others to the detriment of your own ease? > and holding down Opt updates the Edit menu What does this have to do with anything? You can retain the visual updates of these menus even if you use sequence of keys! Press C and the copy command menu expands into a submenu of what you could copy next (path, extension, name). You'll retain your consistency at a higher ergonomic baseline for Finder, nothing stops the improvements here > Or, as the other responder said, dragging auto-escapes appropriately. And as I've replied there, it doesn't do that "appropriately" > third-party apps for focused file management for pros But that's exactly what I said! > differentiate a real pro file manager from the toy of Finder

by eviks 7d ago

klodolph 7d ago

> Don't close your mind to new knowledge and it might just get interested! Please be respectful in these conversations—I’m interested in hearing more about this, but the comments you’ve been making are emotionally charged and insulting. I’m interested to hear what file manager you’re using because it sounds like you’d hate Explorer, Nautilus, and Thunar too. Sorry for repeating the question—but I’m not going to accuse you of “conveniently ignoring” the question. Accusing someone of conveniently ignoring a question is, I don’t know, at best just rude. Don’t do that. I know that there are things that Finder is not good at, that’s fine by me. What baffles me is the comparison with Windows Explorer, and that’s why I responded, and that’s the context for my comments. If you have a comparison with a specific other file manager in mind I’d like to hear it. For my use cases, I am often sorting through large quantities of media files, so I value things like column view and Quicklook. (Copy without extension is enter, command-C. Full path 95% of the time, I am pasting into the Terminal, and so I drag it in, and the terminal automatically escapes it.)

eviks 5d ago
You spend more time saying you're interested than on discussing the topic of interest! And if you care about respect, don't start by trivializing the the argument > but I’m not going to accuse you of “conveniently ignoring” the question. You just have, though in a worse "passive aggressive" way that's harder to address, but also in a way that doesn't even make sense - how is focusing only on features, not apps, "convenient" for me??? It was for you because otherwise your defense of Finder doesn't work. Also it's not just one app (though primarily the list is based on Opus), some of the improvements are sprinkled across different file manager, like on Mac Marta (while being rather incomplete) has a few things I miss when using Finder. You also don't seem to know how hate sounds, I don't hate either of those apps (not even Finder). Why are you emotionally charging the conversation? > What baffles me is the comparison with Windows Explorer Then talk to the people doing the comparison! I'm not one of them, I've responded to a different point. > For my use cases, I am often sorting through large quantities of media files, so I value things like column view and Quicklook. And one of the points I raised in my comparison that is not a fake "but Cmd-C is the same as C" is the ability to customize UI to give more space to your precious media files, especially when you add various columns that have media information that can be blank or very long! Or if you value quicklook you might be interested in an embedded alternative that doesn't obscure the file list by always popping in the center instead of a dedicated panel. Or the that doesn't reset zoom on file change. Or the one that does resize whitespace to only fit the image. Or the one that doesn't waste your time and mess with your focus with animations. There is, of course, an endless list of deficiencies behind any serious workflow in Finder with better alternatives in other apps > Copy without extension is enter, command-C. Nice try, but no. That's two commands, which means you can't use a better key bind, but also the second command fails if the first one does, which it does, for example, in admin folders >Full path 95% of the time, I am pasting into the Terminal, and so I drag it in, and the t Besides having no option for the other 5% of the time, this also fails in shells using different escaping mechanism, and even in bashes it uses the ugliest escape mechanism of adding visual noise of \ for every space. Quoting was mentioned for a reason! Also dragging instead of C, Cmd-V is a big ergonomic failure Lastly, I don't think that's Finder that's doing the substandard escaping
- 5d ago

pwinnski 5d ago

Finder is fine: not the best, not the worst. Your list seems very preference-shaped, not pointing to actually-missing features I can see. You could make a case about discoverability, but it's hard to see how letter combinations that only work within one application and no others are easily memorized. If your habits mean you spend a lot of time working with files in a UI, then memorizing double-tap C and C+F might be easy for you. Otherwise, using the same Cmd+C and Opt+Cmd+C would have the benefit of doing what it does in nearly every other program. Or, as the other responder said, dragging auto-escapes appropriately. I spend most of my time using a CLI, and I'm not claiming Finder is the best keyboard-driven file manager out there, but I will say that it's consistent, and works the way macOS works. Key combos work the way they work in every app, and holding down Opt updates the Edit menu to make it clear what would be different. You can do the most common things pretty easily and clearly, even if sometimes you have to use a mouse and right-click. There are also third-party apps for focused file management for pros, including some that use tuis, like ranger.

eviks 5d ago
> I spend most of my time using a CLI Yeah, it shows. > Opt+Cmd+C would have the benefit of doing what it does in nearly every other program So what do you think it does in Preview? In TextEdit? Are you not aware that you imaginary benefit doesn't exist even in the system default open file Finder window where you can't copy file path? > Finder is fine: not the best, not the worst. Very astute observation relevant to none of the things being discussed. > Your list seems very preference-shaped, not pointing to actually-missing features I can see Look closer! Besides that hard to say what you missed because you haven't said anything specific For example, what is "preference-shaped" about this missing feature > turn column view into a flat list of all files at or below the current dir for easier search > it's hard to see how letter combinations that only work within one application and no others are easily memorized It's very easy to see if you don't ignore use cases and add extra conditions. Like why does it universally have to be easy?? I mean, it doesn't even have to be easy for me, the extra convenience might be worth the effort of having to remember it > might be easy for you. Otherwise What do you mean "otherwise"? Why would you care about others to the detriment of your own ease? > and holding down Opt updates the Edit menu What does this have to do with anything? You can retain the visual updates of these menus even if you use sequence of keys! Press C and the copy command menu expands into a submenu of what you could copy next (path, extension, name). You'll retain your consistency at a higher ergonomic baseline for Finder, nothing stops the improvements here > Or, as the other responder said, dragging auto-escapes appropriately. And as I've replied there, it doesn't do that "appropriately" > third-party apps for focused file management for pros But that's exactly what I said! > differentiate a real pro file manager from the toy of Finder