6 ms·

Dunno why this is being downvoted. Animal Farm is a commentary / allegory on communism. Teaching it to young minds who have not experienced the difference bet

by gjvc 7d ago

Dunno why this is being downvoted. Animal Farm is a commentary / allegory on communism. Teaching it to young minds who have not experienced the difference between the realities of communism and the rest is a vanity at best.

hgomersall 7d ago
It's also a story, and quite an enjoyable and well written one at that. My 8 year old son enjoyed being read it.
- zug_zug 6d ago
  You know that's not the chief goal -- if that's the chief goal, we'd all be assigned to watch Babe rather than read animal farm.
- bluGill 7d ago
  As I recall about half my class enjoyed it, and half hated it. I have nothing wrong with you being in the half that liked it. However I remain in the half that didn't like it.
  - hackyhacky 7d ago
    Is the purpose of school to make you do things that you'll enjoy?
    - bluGill 7d ago
      That is one of the 3 purposes of school. The other two are to get a good job, and to make you a better citizen of the world... (there might be more, but those are the 3 I've come up with). Animal Farm tries to be the last, but the flaws in it mean I can't take it seriously and so it fails. Well maybe it soft of works because nearly everybody has read it, but again, the flaws are so bad I can't take anyone seriously who cites it and so I consider it a failure.
      - foldr 7d ago
        I think you're quite confused about what Animal Farm is. It's a short work of fiction. It's not something that you'd "cite" in support of a particular point, and it wasn't written with the intention of making the reader "a better citizen of the world". Of course it has obvious satirical and allegorical elements, but there's no He-Man-style PSA at the end of it.
        bluGill 7d ago
        The purpose was to make a statement about communism which in turn means it was intended to be the last.
        hackyhacky 7d ago
        > which in turn means it was intended to be the last. That's a bold and misguided assertion of authorial intent. Since you're a fan of the scientific method: you can please cite sources in support of your claim?
        bluGill 7d ago
        Read all the other replies. In particular foldr (sibling to yours) is a very good analysis that makes my point while looking like a rebuttal.
        hackyhacky 7d ago
        I read it. It's definitely a rebuttal.
        foldr 7d ago
        That's a non sequitur. But you see, this is the exactly kind of thing that a high school literature class could usefully dig into. We know that Orwell was thinking of the Russian Revolution when he wrote the book. Many events in the story have obvious historical parallels to it. On the other hand, Orwell was also a political journalist who wrote political essays. If his primary aim in writing the book was to make a specific critique of communism, why did he decide to express that critique as a work of fiction with talking animals? He would certainly have been aware that such a work is inherently open to wider interpretation. Do you really think that a class of reasonably intelligent high school students couldn't find any moral in the story that's not inherently tied to communism? There are clearly all sorts of analogies that can be drawn between the story and historical or current events. And there are all sorts of conclusions you can draw. Maybe the animals should never have had a revolution in the first place; maybe they should have, but they went about it the wrong way, etc. etc.
    - john_strinlai 7d ago
      >Is the purpose of school to make you do things that you'll enjoy? ideally, yes, enjoyment should be one purpose of school. it's much easier to teach when students are enjoying learning. learning to engage with something that you don't enjoy is also important, though, and why i think some of "the classics" should still be required reading.
      - deleted 7d ago
        [deleted]
foldr 7d ago
One of the main reasons to encourage kids to read fiction is to expose them to stories outside their current experience. We don't get kids to read Treasure Island because they can inherently relate to a story about 18th century pirates. While it's true that the finer political nuances of Animal Farm are likely to be lost on most children, it's a perfectly comprehensible story in its own right, and it needn't be read narrowly as an allegory about Communism per se.
hackyhacky 7d ago
> Teaching it to young minds who have not experienced the difference between the realities of communism and the rest is a vanity at best. So, we shouldn't learn about history until we experience it ourselves? Seems like that would eliminate, uh, most of history. I haven't experienced the harsh realities of the Cretaceous period but I still like reading about dinosaurs.
- gjvc 7d ago
  usual disingeous HN response. Nobody except you is talking about history. Today, the obvious communist societies are China and North Korea, with Vietnam, Laos, and Cuba perhaps the lesser-known of the bunch.
  - hackyhacky 7d ago
    > Nobody except you is talking about history. You're kind of missing the point of my comment. You said, in essence, that it's impossible to learn about Communism unless you've experienced it personally. > China and North Korea, with Vietnam, Laos, and Cuba Of those countries, how many have you experienced personally, and thus, by your standard, are qualified to comment on? To what extent is modern China actually Communist, as opposed capitalist-authoritarian?

by gjvc 7d ago

hgomersall 7d ago

It's also a story, and quite an enjoyable and well written one at that. My 8 year old son enjoyed being read it.

zug_zug 6d ago
You know that's not the chief goal -- if that's the chief goal, we'd all be assigned to watch Babe rather than read animal farm.
bluGill 7d ago
As I recall about half my class enjoyed it, and half hated it. I have nothing wrong with you being in the half that liked it. However I remain in the half that didn't like it.
- hackyhacky 7d ago
  Is the purpose of school to make you do things that you'll enjoy?
  - bluGill 7d ago
    That is one of the 3 purposes of school. The other two are to get a good job, and to make you a better citizen of the world... (there might be more, but those are the 3 I've come up with). Animal Farm tries to be the last, but the flaws in it mean I can't take it seriously and so it fails. Well maybe it soft of works because nearly everybody has read it, but again, the flaws are so bad I can't take anyone seriously who cites it and so I consider it a failure.
    - foldr 7d ago
      I think you're quite confused about what Animal Farm is. It's a short work of fiction. It's not something that you'd "cite" in support of a particular point, and it wasn't written with the intention of making the reader "a better citizen of the world". Of course it has obvious satirical and allegorical elements, but there's no He-Man-style PSA at the end of it.
      - bluGill 7d ago
        The purpose was to make a statement about communism which in turn means it was intended to be the last.
        hackyhacky 7d ago
        > which in turn means it was intended to be the last. That's a bold and misguided assertion of authorial intent. Since you're a fan of the scientific method: you can please cite sources in support of your claim?
        bluGill 7d ago
        Read all the other replies. In particular foldr (sibling to yours) is a very good analysis that makes my point while looking like a rebuttal.
        hackyhacky 7d ago
        I read it. It's definitely a rebuttal.
        foldr 7d ago
        That's a non sequitur. But you see, this is the exactly kind of thing that a high school literature class could usefully dig into. We know that Orwell was thinking of the Russian Revolution when he wrote the book. Many events in the story have obvious historical parallels to it. On the other hand, Orwell was also a political journalist who wrote political essays. If his primary aim in writing the book was to make a specific critique of communism, why did he decide to express that critique as a work of fiction with talking animals? He would certainly have been aware that such a work is inherently open to wider interpretation. Do you really think that a class of reasonably intelligent high school students couldn't find any moral in the story that's not inherently tied to communism? There are clearly all sorts of analogies that can be drawn between the story and historical or current events. And there are all sorts of conclusions you can draw. Maybe the animals should never have had a revolution in the first place; maybe they should have, but they went about it the wrong way, etc. etc.
  - john_strinlai 7d ago
    >Is the purpose of school to make you do things that you'll enjoy? ideally, yes, enjoyment should be one purpose of school. it's much easier to teach when students are enjoying learning. learning to engage with something that you don't enjoy is also important, though, and why i think some of "the classics" should still be required reading.
    - deleted 7d ago
      [deleted]

foldr 7d ago

One of the main reasons to encourage kids to read fiction is to expose them to stories outside their current experience. We don't get kids to read Treasure Island because they can inherently relate to a story about 18th century pirates. While it's true that the finer political nuances of Animal Farm are likely to be lost on most children, it's a perfectly comprehensible story in its own right, and it needn't be read narrowly as an allegory about Communism per se.

hackyhacky 7d ago

> Teaching it to young minds who have not experienced the difference between the realities of communism and the rest is a vanity at best. So, we shouldn't learn about history until we experience it ourselves? Seems like that would eliminate, uh, most of history. I haven't experienced the harsh realities of the Cretaceous period but I still like reading about dinosaurs.

gjvc 7d ago
usual disingeous HN response. Nobody except you is talking about history. Today, the obvious communist societies are China and North Korea, with Vietnam, Laos, and Cuba perhaps the lesser-known of the bunch.
- hackyhacky 7d ago
  > Nobody except you is talking about history. You're kind of missing the point of my comment. You said, in essence, that it's impossible to learn about Communism unless you've experienced it personally. > China and North Korea, with Vietnam, Laos, and Cuba Of those countries, how many have you experienced personally, and thus, by your standard, are qualified to comment on? To what extent is modern China actually Communist, as opposed capitalist-authoritarian?