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This reminds me so much of the Raglan hero archetype rank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank–Raglan_hero_archetype https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank–Raglan_he

This reminds me so much of the Raglan hero archetype rank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank–Raglan_hero_archetype https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank–Raglan_hero_archetype So many stories, many people believe are true and build whole religions around, are really just repeated stories with many details changed to fit the local culture and traditions. It's crazy so many of the world's politics and problems stem from what might actually just be the same story said in a different way... or even of a fan fiction on top of existing fiction.

twic 8d ago
Can I interest you in Jesus also being Emperor Andronikos I? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_chronology_(Fomenko) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_chronology_(Fomenko)
darepublic 8d ago
Politics and problems don't stem from the story. The story is an after the fact rationalization
bmacho 8d ago
> Classicist Thomas J. Sienkewicz analyzed additional heroes using Raglan's pattern, including Mithridates VI of Pontus (22 points), Krishna (21 points), Jesus (18 points), Mohammad (17 points), Beowulf (15 points), Buddha (15 points), Czar Nicholas II (14 points), Samson (13 points), Sunjata, the Lion-King of Ancient Mali (11 points), Achilles (10 points), and Harry Potter (8 points).
nchmy 7d ago
I had never heard of raglan, but started commenting about how this relates to Joseph Campbell's work. Turns out that the wiki article heavily compares raglan and Campbell. I look forward to looking into this all some more. One note - and this could just be nitpicking rather than making any correction. I mostly agree, but the "details changed" part implies that there was actual connection between the societies and one borrowed/modified the other's stories. That surely happened sometimes. But, there's plenty of evidence of very similar stories springing up in completely disconnected parts of the world. The explanation is that they come from something innate to the human experience. Also, just because they're "stories" doesn't mean they don't have profound insight and value. Joseph Campbell did tremendous work in presenting all of this. He had deep reverence for it all, not just despite, but likely because of, the deep similarities across the world. But he was very clear about the fact that everyone's fighting over what to call bread. They miss the point entirely. But so do atheist-type people who write it all off based on literal, logical readings - they miss the metaphor, and therefore the value. He would say things like "atheists would sit down at a restaurant, look at the menu, then start eating the menu" - mistaking the symbol for the reference. Or seeing a road sign "welcome to city" and thinking "ah, here we are". Everyone - "believers", atheists and anywhere in between - has a tremendous amount to learn and gain if they can learn to read it all as great literature, poetry etc...

twic 8d ago

Can I interest you in Jesus also being Emperor Andronikos I? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_chronology_(Fomenko) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_chronology_(Fomenko)

darepublic 8d ago

Politics and problems don't stem from the story. The story is an after the fact rationalization

bmacho 8d ago

> Classicist Thomas J. Sienkewicz analyzed additional heroes using Raglan's pattern, including Mithridates VI of Pontus (22 points), Krishna (21 points), Jesus (18 points), Mohammad (17 points), Beowulf (15 points), Buddha (15 points), Czar Nicholas II (14 points), Samson (13 points), Sunjata, the Lion-King of Ancient Mali (11 points), Achilles (10 points), and Harry Potter (8 points).

nchmy 7d ago

I had never heard of raglan, but started commenting about how this relates to Joseph Campbell's work. Turns out that the wiki article heavily compares raglan and Campbell. I look forward to looking into this all some more. One note - and this could just be nitpicking rather than making any correction. I mostly agree, but the "details changed" part implies that there was actual connection between the societies and one borrowed/modified the other's stories. That surely happened sometimes. But, there's plenty of evidence of very similar stories springing up in completely disconnected parts of the world. The explanation is that they come from something innate to the human experience. Also, just because they're "stories" doesn't mean they don't have profound insight and value. Joseph Campbell did tremendous work in presenting all of this. He had deep reverence for it all, not just despite, but likely because of, the deep similarities across the world. But he was very clear about the fact that everyone's fighting over what to call bread. They miss the point entirely. But so do atheist-type people who write it all off based on literal, logical readings - they miss the metaphor, and therefore the value. He would say things like "atheists would sit down at a restaurant, look at the menu, then start eating the menu" - mistaking the symbol for the reference. Or seeing a road sign "welcome to city" and thinking "ah, here we are". Everyone - "believers", atheists and anywhere in between - has a tremendous amount to learn and gain if they can learn to read it all as great literature, poetry etc...