5 ms·

KYC is necessary because you do not want for money laundering to be easy. Nor sanctions avoiding, nor terrorist sponsoring.

by sofixa 8d ago

pocksuppet 7d ago
Money laundering isn't even a real thing. It's an excuse for the government to arrest people who are linked to people who are linked to people who they don't like.
zmgsabst 8d ago
In practice, KYC does little to stop any of that — but does do a lot to enable mass surveillance and oppression.
- HighGoldstein 8d ago
  > In practice, KYC does little to stop any of that Source? The fact that it's not infallible doesn't mean that it's ineffective.
  - zmgsabst 8d ago
    They route through all kinds of intermediaries that handle the banking by proxy — eg, as we saw in the Panama Papers and similar leaks. Reporting $600 in CashApp isn’t about stopping cartels, terrorists, etc; it’s about harassing sex workers and street dealers, profiling side businesses, etc.
  - miohtama 8d ago
    Here is a good book on the topic of ineffectiveness of anti-money laundering: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DVLLL1X3?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DVLLL1X3?lv=shuf&channelId=500&p... Podcast if you do not want to buy the book: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2026-09-08/odd-lots-why-money-launderers-love-100-bills-video https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2026-09-08/odd-lots-wh...
mistrial9 8d ago
I just tried to pay my elderly neighbors cell phone bill here in California. I will spare you the details. Is all of this really required? It reminds me of a time when credit and credit cards were flying fast. Large losses started appearing on consumer credit accounts by the tens of thousands. A casual look into it indicated that it was the employees and leaders of the sector, who read and understood the credit agreement that put liability ultimately on the company. The actual credit card employees, adjacent accountants, quick witted cons, all siphoning money from credit cards in very large numbers. Why say this? Actual customers with increasing security requirements were largely not at all involved with the growing fraud. It was the participants in the credit industry seizing the opportunity to steal, with relative impunity. Things have changed and changed again since then with scale, local rules, fraud detection systems etc. The point of the rant is that ordinary people's rights are squeezed, privacy vanishes, routine humiliating document production and security, required because the people in the industry that created those is cheating. Yes of course there is cheating on taxes over tip money, or no-show jobs for relatives.. but what kind of society is being built with constant oversight into ordinary people's activity ? cash indeed
newspaper1 8d ago
Who decides who we're sanctioning and who is a "terrorist"? Not me, that's for sure! My money is my business and I don't need the state nanny watching who I send it to.
- miohtama 8d ago
  Southern Poverty Law Center decides: > Government should require regular, mandatory reporting by technology service providers to document abuse of their systems including financial support of violence, harassment, and terrorism.This includes implementation of mandatory financial abuse reporting requirements for internet services operating in the United States, including social media services, infrastructure providers, banking institutions, cryptocurrency exchanges, crowdfunding sites, video streaming platforms, and the like. > [These companies] should be required to investigate and report the details of harms and abuse of their service. There should be … penalties applied to services that refuse these tracking and reporting responsibilities. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/nonprofit-indicted-bank-fraud/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/nonprofit-indicted-ba...
miohtama 8d ago
The criminal money and money laundering has been researched since 19th century. It has stayed at constant 2-5% of world GDP. However the cost of compliance has gone up exponentially. Today banks use $250B/year on KYC checks. You could fix the world hunger and still have $50B leftover money with this amount.
- owebmaster 5d ago
  > Today banks use $250B/year on KYC checks. You could fix the world hunger and still have $50B leftover money with this amount. How about getting $200B from the profits to end hunger first then reduce the money spent on KYC?
- rapatel0 8d ago
  It's not a fair comparison. Money laundering controls likely have also been implemented since the 19th century in some way shape or form. Therefore, that 2-5% figure also includes the effect of those controls. This might just the natural equilibrium below which the juice is no longer worth the squeeze. Access to information and interconnectedness have also increased exponentially so it might make sense that the costs have increased proportionately. Finally 200B/year would not solve world hunger if nefarious actors grift away most of that money (especially because you wouldn't be able to track them with out some form of KYC)
  - ryandrake 8d ago
    You also have to ask if money laundering is bad enough of a crime to warrant all of the overkill responses to it. At some point the medicine becomes worse than the disease. Lawmakers tend to get into these inescapable loops: Crime X exists -> Try solution Y -> Crime X still exists -> Try harsher solution Y0 -> Crime X still exists -> Try harsher solution Y1 -> Crime X still exists -> Try harsher solution Y2...
    - bdangubic 8d ago
      > Crime X exists -> Try solution Y ... I think the problem here might be that while Crime by its definition might be the same, the way that it is executed changes drastically so Solution Y/Y0/Y1/Y2 are not required to exist in terms of severity (very likely solution Y was severe enough if you were tried and convicted of the crime) but they are needed because the way Crime X is executed changes (especially this Crime X)
ratelimitsteve 8d ago
when terrorism can be defined as "having a book" and can result in indefinite detention without charge or access to an attorney maybe i'm not 100% gung-ho by default on everything labelled anti-terrorism
- MSFT_Edging 8d ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49481385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49481385
charlieyu1 8d ago
Why should our rights be restricted when law enforcement is impotent?
AngryData 8d ago
Hard disagree, low level crimes should not be so heavily enforced. A bit of blackmarket activity is not only beneficial but neccessary for any stable economy. It can't be allowed at mass scale, but you can't effectively micromanage every transaction and account for every situation for every single good or dollar.
d5lt5 8d ago
It's rich coming from a person affected by ukrainian propaganda that is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. Maybe you should back your opinion with facts. Citation is desperately needed.
- sofixa 7d ago
  How am I affected by Ukranian propaganda? And how does Ukranian corruption relate to.. money laundering? > Maybe you should back your opinion with facts. Citation is desperately needed That you don't want to make money laundering too easy? What exactly are you looking for as a citation here? "Crime bad"?

KYC is necessary because you do not want for money laundering to be easy. Nor sanctions avoiding, nor terrorist sponsoring.

by sofixa 8d ago

KYC is necessary because you do not want for money laundering to be easy. Nor sanctions avoiding, nor terrorist sponsoring.

pocksuppet 7d ago

Money laundering isn't even a real thing. It's an excuse for the government to arrest people who are linked to people who are linked to people who they don't like.

zmgsabst 8d ago

In practice, KYC does little to stop any of that — but does do a lot to enable mass surveillance and oppression.

HighGoldstein 8d ago
> In practice, KYC does little to stop any of that Source? The fact that it's not infallible doesn't mean that it's ineffective.
- zmgsabst 8d ago
  They route through all kinds of intermediaries that handle the banking by proxy — eg, as we saw in the Panama Papers and similar leaks. Reporting $600 in CashApp isn’t about stopping cartels, terrorists, etc; it’s about harassing sex workers and street dealers, profiling side businesses, etc.
- miohtama 8d ago
  Here is a good book on the topic of ineffectiveness of anti-money laundering: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DVLLL1X3?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DVLLL1X3?lv=shuf&channelId=500&p... Podcast if you do not want to buy the book: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2026-09-08/odd-lots-why-money-launderers-love-100-bills-video https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2026-09-08/odd-lots-wh...

mistrial9 8d ago

I just tried to pay my elderly neighbors cell phone bill here in California. I will spare you the details. Is all of this really required? It reminds me of a time when credit and credit cards were flying fast. Large losses started appearing on consumer credit accounts by the tens of thousands. A casual look into it indicated that it was the employees and leaders of the sector, who read and understood the credit agreement that put liability ultimately on the company. The actual credit card employees, adjacent accountants, quick witted cons, all siphoning money from credit cards in very large numbers. Why say this? Actual customers with increasing security requirements were largely not at all involved with the growing fraud. It was the participants in the credit industry seizing the opportunity to steal, with relative impunity. Things have changed and changed again since then with scale, local rules, fraud detection systems etc. The point of the rant is that ordinary people's rights are squeezed, privacy vanishes, routine humiliating document production and security, required because the people in the industry that created those is cheating. Yes of course there is cheating on taxes over tip money, or no-show jobs for relatives.. but what kind of society is being built with constant oversight into ordinary people's activity ? cash indeed

newspaper1 8d ago

Who decides who we're sanctioning and who is a "terrorist"? Not me, that's for sure! My money is my business and I don't need the state nanny watching who I send it to.

miohtama 8d ago
Southern Poverty Law Center decides: > Government should require regular, mandatory reporting by technology service providers to document abuse of their systems including financial support of violence, harassment, and terrorism.This includes implementation of mandatory financial abuse reporting requirements for internet services operating in the United States, including social media services, infrastructure providers, banking institutions, cryptocurrency exchanges, crowdfunding sites, video streaming platforms, and the like. > [These companies] should be required to investigate and report the details of harms and abuse of their service. There should be … penalties applied to services that refuse these tracking and reporting responsibilities. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/nonprofit-indicted-bank-fraud/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/nonprofit-indicted-ba...

miohtama 8d ago

The criminal money and money laundering has been researched since 19th century. It has stayed at constant 2-5% of world GDP. However the cost of compliance has gone up exponentially. Today banks use $250B/year on KYC checks. You could fix the world hunger and still have $50B leftover money with this amount.

owebmaster 5d ago
> Today banks use $250B/year on KYC checks. You could fix the world hunger and still have $50B leftover money with this amount. How about getting $200B from the profits to end hunger first then reduce the money spent on KYC?
rapatel0 8d ago
It's not a fair comparison. Money laundering controls likely have also been implemented since the 19th century in some way shape or form. Therefore, that 2-5% figure also includes the effect of those controls. This might just the natural equilibrium below which the juice is no longer worth the squeeze. Access to information and interconnectedness have also increased exponentially so it might make sense that the costs have increased proportionately. Finally 200B/year would not solve world hunger if nefarious actors grift away most of that money (especially because you wouldn't be able to track them with out some form of KYC)
- ryandrake 8d ago
  You also have to ask if money laundering is bad enough of a crime to warrant all of the overkill responses to it. At some point the medicine becomes worse than the disease. Lawmakers tend to get into these inescapable loops: Crime X exists -> Try solution Y -> Crime X still exists -> Try harsher solution Y0 -> Crime X still exists -> Try harsher solution Y1 -> Crime X still exists -> Try harsher solution Y2...
  - bdangubic 8d ago
    > Crime X exists -> Try solution Y ... I think the problem here might be that while Crime by its definition might be the same, the way that it is executed changes drastically so Solution Y/Y0/Y1/Y2 are not required to exist in terms of severity (very likely solution Y was severe enough if you were tried and convicted of the crime) but they are needed because the way Crime X is executed changes (especially this Crime X)

ratelimitsteve 8d ago

when terrorism can be defined as "having a book" and can result in indefinite detention without charge or access to an attorney maybe i'm not 100% gung-ho by default on everything labelled anti-terrorism

MSFT_Edging 8d ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49481385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49481385

charlieyu1 8d ago

Why should our rights be restricted when law enforcement is impotent?

AngryData 8d ago

Hard disagree, low level crimes should not be so heavily enforced. A bit of blackmarket activity is not only beneficial but neccessary for any stable economy. It can't be allowed at mass scale, but you can't effectively micromanage every transaction and account for every situation for every single good or dollar.

d5lt5 8d ago

It's rich coming from a person affected by ukrainian propaganda that is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. Maybe you should back your opinion with facts. Citation is desperately needed.

sofixa 7d ago
How am I affected by Ukranian propaganda? And how does Ukranian corruption relate to.. money laundering? > Maybe you should back your opinion with facts. Citation is desperately needed That you don't want to make money laundering too easy? What exactly are you looking for as a citation here? "Crime bad"?