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Strong resonance with the famous essay "The Rise of Worse is Better" [1], which contrasted the (better) "MIT/Stanford style of design" with the (worse) "New Jer
by getnormality 9d ago
Strong resonance with the famous essay "The Rise of Worse is Better" [1], which contrasted the (better) "MIT/Stanford style of design" with the (worse) "New Jersey approach".
MIT/Stanford:
> Simplicity -- the design must be simple, both in implementation and interface. It is more important for the interface to be simple than the implementation.
New Jersey:
> Simplicity -- the design must be simple, both in implementation and interface. It is more important for the implementation to be simple than the interface. Simplicity is the most important consideration in a design.
TFA maps "simplicity" to "MIT/Stanford simplicity" (simplicity for the user) and "smallness" to "New Jersey simplicity" (simplicity for the developer).
I wonder if the root of the tension between the two schools comes down to the ambiguity of the user/developer distinction. Developers are also users. Simplicity of implementation is helpful to developers when they are working directly on implementation, while simplicity of interface is helpful to developers when they are using other developers' work.
[1] https://dreamsongs.com/RiseOfWorseIsBetter.html https://dreamsongs.com/RiseOfWorseIsBetter.html
- ux266478 9d agoI think you're right on that point of contention, it's too far to assert a universal and clear good/bad dynamic here because that line between developer/user is contextual and fuzzy. Another interesting irony I'll note, Lisp is the "New Jersey approach" towards symbolic AI. Americans clinging to their Lisp systems were deeply entrenched in a "worse-is-better" mindset. Your interface, the computational model, didn't need to be designed for logic programming, that was wholly secondary. Do everything as much as possible in Lisp, and then offload the relational description to a small (not simple) library. American knowledge engineers were looked at as overpaid procedural hackers with zero mathematical elegance and very little credibility. More or less the same perception these self-same Lisp-machine users had for Unix and C programmers. It's all about perspective, at the end of the day. Where we draw the line in the sand on these categories is free-to-choose, yet it also determines everything. We're always someone else's villain under different semantics.
- qu4z-2 9d agoI appreciate the New Jersey simplicity as a user (with development skills) too, though. It's usually just a matter of time before I have to dive into the program/library/whatever internals to fix a bug.
- mitxela 9d agoIt's why only nerds use Linux (simple for the developer) but everyone uses Office (simple for the user). Sorry, I meant Microsoft Copilot 365.
- qbane 9d agoI think Excel is a good example that everyone can build a clear mental model on how to use it, but implementing one is a daunting task.
- otabdeveloper4 9d agoAre you nuts? Excel is great, but it's an arcane beast rivaled only by Emacs configs. People pass down Excel formulas by word of mouth like they're magic spells.
- qbane 8d agoYes, I was thinking about it being an insanely low-code programmable machine, hidden in the seemingly limited 2D grid of cells.
- mitxela 9d agoPretty much anything. I mean, even consider a text editor, monospace font, no syntax highlighting. It's already pretty daunting. Doable, certainly, but a big task. We're lucky people already made some, and we can copy their designs even when we choose not to copy their exact code. Now consider Microsoft Word.
- pjmlp 9d agoWhich traces back to Xerox Bravo text editor. From the authors, Charles Simonyi went to Microsoft as one of the original Word implementers, while Excel was born on Mac OS and only later ported to Windows.