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I'm fully convinced that people who think agents write decent code now simply don't read the code. Their bar is "it runs, so it's fine". Just as they produce w

I'm fully convinced that people who think agents write decent code now simply don't read the code. Their bar is "it runs, so it's fine". Just as they produce writing that isn't structured well for humans, they do the same with code. Sure, if you're willing for that code to be write-only and for agents to be the sole interface through which you interact with it, that works fine, but it is not better than what a professional, skilled human could produce. It's often full of pointless crap and design decisions that over index heavily on local structure that make very little sense when global system structure is considered.

bigstrat2003 9d ago
In my experience, the people who are enamored with LLMs for programming fall into one of three categories. Shills, people who could never program decently to begin with, and people who don't care about the quality of their work. Everyone I know who actually is a good programmer and cares about doing a good job has found that LLMs make too many mistakes to be trusted, and avoid them if they can.
- ux266478 9d ago
  Most people who are good at their job understand the greatest value comes from deep understanding and internalization. Some people have been in roles where alienation from the code is institutionalized, and they've been playing that role for so long that the idea of having a strong understanding and near prescient mental map of a 2 million line codebase sounds absurd. I think the question is less about the capabilities of LLMs and their outputs (because obviously that can change), but because they represent a workflow which codifies exactly that role I mention. You fulfill the role of a manager more than a programmer. You have a vague idea of the codebase, but lack any kind of intuitive mechanical understanding. There are many cases in which I can see an issue, identify the problem, and have it fixed faster than you could prompt an LLM to investigate. After a certain point of familiarity, all reasoning is local reasoning. That's the power of mechanical sympathy. Many, many large shops don't give a shit. They've long since galloped into the dark woods of bureaucratic know-nothing hell. Let the LLM figure that shit out. Those shops are already optimizing for maximal output and churn, so the value proposition seems obvious. I've been smugly saying it for years, but LLMs have me saying it quite a lot more these days: "Sure looks like it sucks down there!"

bigstrat2003 9d ago

In my experience, the people who are enamored with LLMs for programming fall into one of three categories. Shills, people who could never program decently to begin with, and people who don't care about the quality of their work. Everyone I know who actually is a good programmer and cares about doing a good job has found that LLMs make too many mistakes to be trusted, and avoid them if they can.

ux266478 9d ago
Most people who are good at their job understand the greatest value comes from deep understanding and internalization. Some people have been in roles where alienation from the code is institutionalized, and they've been playing that role for so long that the idea of having a strong understanding and near prescient mental map of a 2 million line codebase sounds absurd. I think the question is less about the capabilities of LLMs and their outputs (because obviously that can change), but because they represent a workflow which codifies exactly that role I mention. You fulfill the role of a manager more than a programmer. You have a vague idea of the codebase, but lack any kind of intuitive mechanical understanding. There are many cases in which I can see an issue, identify the problem, and have it fixed faster than you could prompt an LLM to investigate. After a certain point of familiarity, all reasoning is local reasoning. That's the power of mechanical sympathy. Many, many large shops don't give a shit. They've long since galloped into the dark woods of bureaucratic know-nothing hell. Let the LLM figure that shit out. Those shops are already optimizing for maximal output and churn, so the value proposition seems obvious. I've been smugly saying it for years, but LLMs have me saying it quite a lot more these days: "Sure looks like it sucks down there!"