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Yet people who met her were stupid enough to think she is some kind of genius and gave her millions of dollars. Sometimes I think if Charles Manson started a s

Yet people who met her were stupid enough to think she is some kind of genius and gave her millions of dollars. Sometimes I think if Charles Manson started a startup instead of killing people he would have had millions in investments and be praised as some sort of wunder kind...

covercash 9d ago
Or Charles Manson could weasel his way into existing startups, claim them as his own, become the richest man in the world, AND kill so many more people than he ever thought possible!
- upupupandaway 9d ago
  What?
  - sschueller 9d ago
    Elon's DOGE is responsible for over 100k deaths. Some died a horrible death with medical devices stuck in them because there was no one to remove them after all funding was instantly cut. One of the most inhumane and disgusting acts in history.
    - archagon 9d ago
      That every Musk-adjacent article and PR summary isn’t prefaced with this basic, indisputable fact is repulsive.
    - upupupandaway 9d ago
      All of these numbers are based on a single source, the Impact Counter dashboard made by a BU professor, which is full of methodological problems. It assumes 100% cessation of funds, for example, while in reality there was a freeze.
    - shimman 9d ago
      What is your claim for the last one? I'm not finding it on google. What was the program?
    - dekhn 9d ago
      Do you have reliable citations for this claim rather than general hand-waving? It felt like the whole news cycle about the deaths was one where nobody critically examined the claim. I am looking for real data, not claims. If you link articles without real and unambiguous data, it's not helping.
      - Fricken 9d ago
        >Musk has said his critics “cannot cite a single name of someone who died” and “If there were, it would be worldwide headline news!” When confronted with the names – including those of children who died because of the cuts – Musk called a journalist “an utter piece of shit and a liar” and “utterly evil”. Musk has claimed, without evidence, that US tax dollars went to arming militants and “corrupt politicians”. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jul/07/elon-musk-doge-cuts-usaid-ebola https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jul/07/elon-musk... https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/usaid-shutdown-has-led-to-hundreds-of-thousands-of-deaths/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/usaid-shutdown-has-led-to-hund...
        dekhn 9d ago
        those are estimates, not data. I am asking about actual data. For example, mortality reports, piles of bodies, etc. I understand feeling emotional about this, I really do. But the important bit is that if you make a big claim "millions of people died", you have to back that with actual evidence, not models.
        ryandrake 9d ago
        You are sealioning[1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
        dekhn 9d ago
        Nope. And I hate that entire comic for poisoninh the very idea that asking for the evidence is wrong. I'm operating in good faith asking people to show data. There is no reliable data supporting the claim that millions of people died because usaid was canceled. That's all.
aa-jv 9d ago
>were stupid enough to think she is some kind of genius and gave her millions of dollars. The tech industry is rife with such suckers. We wouldn't have the wealth we have without them.
- OroPla 9d ago
  Who was it again that said money is thrown out the window without any concern, you just have to stand below the right window? It was true then and it is true now. Really helps if the money you are throwing out isn't your own, too.
jiaosdjf 9d ago
All founders and CEOs are like this, to the point that when I meet a person in leadership who clearly isn't a sociopath my default reaction is to assume that they're not successful. The only reason I'm somewhat confident that I am not a sociopath is because I am still frequently presented business ideas that make me think "WTF how did you even think of that and why am I so angry that it's probably going to work"
- timcobb 9d ago
  > who clearly isn't a sociopath Or is a sociopath, just not *clearly*.
timcobb 9d ago
He could have done this if he was from a more privileged background for sure.
tantalor 9d ago
Hot take: She is a genius. Just not the kind of genius that can invent new products or lead a successful company. If she had partnered with a competent engineer and CEO, Theranos might still be in business. The company wasn't doomed from the start. It began with a real vision.
- sarchertech 9d ago
  Yeah but the “vision” was just the ideas of a kid with 2 semesters of college classes under her belt saying “what if”. It was never going to work. She had tons of competent engineers working for her. The basic idea was and is unworkable. If she had come up with an actual good idea with only 2 semesters of experience then sure you could say she was a genius. Even if she couldn’t successfully build a company. But the most you say is that she is a really good conman.
  - milindsmart 9d ago
    And surely with all the competent engineers working for her, she could have figured out where to pivot to, once she understood that the original basic idea was unworkable. Plenty of founders keep pivoting, all the time in the beginning, so it says something about her that she doubled down on it to the point of fraud.
  - embedding-shape 9d ago
    > The basic idea was and is unworkable. To be fair, lots of "basic ideas" are unworkable until someone bangs their head against it enough times and suddenly it is workable. Sometimes the environment or available technology just have to change/improve/scale a tiny bit more for something to go from unworkable to workable. Still, what she did was obvious fraud straight up, not just "lets bang our head against this until it works".
    - deleted 9d ago
      [deleted]
    - twoodfin 9d ago
hackyhacky 9d ago
> Sometimes I think if Charles Manson started a startup We like to think we live in a meritocracy, but the fact so much of success is based on personality, manipulating people, being charming and persuasive, tapping into others' insecurities and ambitions. Elizabeth Holmes is a symptom of the same basic human dysfunction that brought us Charles Manson and Donald Trump. Relevant musical interlude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0
- riwsky 9d ago
  Being charming and persuasive is legitimately one of the core skills of a CEO or any leader, though!

covercash 9d ago

Or Charles Manson could weasel his way into existing startups, claim them as his own, become the richest man in the world, AND kill so many more people than he ever thought possible!

upupupandaway 9d ago
What?
- sschueller 9d ago
  Elon's DOGE is responsible for over 100k deaths. Some died a horrible death with medical devices stuck in them because there was no one to remove them after all funding was instantly cut. One of the most inhumane and disgusting acts in history.
  - archagon 9d ago
    That every Musk-adjacent article and PR summary isn’t prefaced with this basic, indisputable fact is repulsive.
  - upupupandaway 9d ago
    All of these numbers are based on a single source, the Impact Counter dashboard made by a BU professor, which is full of methodological problems. It assumes 100% cessation of funds, for example, while in reality there was a freeze.
  - shimman 9d ago
    What is your claim for the last one? I'm not finding it on google. What was the program?
  - dekhn 9d ago
    Do you have reliable citations for this claim rather than general hand-waving? It felt like the whole news cycle about the deaths was one where nobody critically examined the claim. I am looking for real data, not claims. If you link articles without real and unambiguous data, it's not helping.
    - Fricken 9d ago
      >Musk has said his critics “cannot cite a single name of someone who died” and “If there were, it would be worldwide headline news!” When confronted with the names – including those of children who died because of the cuts – Musk called a journalist “an utter piece of shit and a liar” and “utterly evil”. Musk has claimed, without evidence, that US tax dollars went to arming militants and “corrupt politicians”. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jul/07/elon-musk-doge-cuts-usaid-ebola https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jul/07/elon-musk... https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/usaid-shutdown-has-led-to-hundreds-of-thousands-of-deaths/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/usaid-shutdown-has-led-to-hund...
      - dekhn 9d ago
        those are estimates, not data. I am asking about actual data. For example, mortality reports, piles of bodies, etc. I understand feeling emotional about this, I really do. But the important bit is that if you make a big claim "millions of people died", you have to back that with actual evidence, not models.
        ryandrake 9d ago
        You are sealioning[1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
        dekhn 9d ago
        Nope. And I hate that entire comic for poisoninh the very idea that asking for the evidence is wrong. I'm operating in good faith asking people to show data. There is no reliable data supporting the claim that millions of people died because usaid was canceled. That's all.

aa-jv 9d ago

>were stupid enough to think she is some kind of genius and gave her millions of dollars. The tech industry is rife with such suckers. We wouldn't have the wealth we have without them.

OroPla 9d ago
Who was it again that said money is thrown out the window without any concern, you just have to stand below the right window? It was true then and it is true now. Really helps if the money you are throwing out isn't your own, too.

jiaosdjf 9d ago

All founders and CEOs are like this, to the point that when I meet a person in leadership who clearly isn't a sociopath my default reaction is to assume that they're not successful. The only reason I'm somewhat confident that I am not a sociopath is because I am still frequently presented business ideas that make me think "WTF how did you even think of that and why am I so angry that it's probably going to work"

timcobb 9d ago
> who clearly isn't a sociopath Or is a sociopath, just not *clearly*.

timcobb 9d ago

He could have done this if he was from a more privileged background for sure.

tantalor 9d ago

Hot take: She is a genius. Just not the kind of genius that can invent new products or lead a successful company. If she had partnered with a competent engineer and CEO, Theranos might still be in business. The company wasn't doomed from the start. It began with a real vision.

sarchertech 9d ago
Yeah but the “vision” was just the ideas of a kid with 2 semesters of college classes under her belt saying “what if”. It was never going to work. She had tons of competent engineers working for her. The basic idea was and is unworkable. If she had come up with an actual good idea with only 2 semesters of experience then sure you could say she was a genius. Even if she couldn’t successfully build a company. But the most you say is that she is a really good conman.
- milindsmart 9d ago
  And surely with all the competent engineers working for her, she could have figured out where to pivot to, once she understood that the original basic idea was unworkable. Plenty of founders keep pivoting, all the time in the beginning, so it says something about her that she doubled down on it to the point of fraud.
- embedding-shape 9d ago
  > The basic idea was and is unworkable. To be fair, lots of "basic ideas" are unworkable until someone bangs their head against it enough times and suddenly it is workable. Sometimes the environment or available technology just have to change/improve/scale a tiny bit more for something to go from unworkable to workable. Still, what she did was obvious fraud straight up, not just "lets bang our head against this until it works".
  - deleted 9d ago
    [deleted]
  - twoodfin 9d ago

hackyhacky 9d ago

> Sometimes I think if Charles Manson started a startup We like to think we live in a meritocracy, but the fact so much of success is based on personality, manipulating people, being charming and persuasive, tapping into others' insecurities and ambitions. Elizabeth Holmes is a symptom of the same basic human dysfunction that brought us Charles Manson and Donald Trump. Relevant musical interlude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0

riwsky 9d ago
Being charming and persuasive is legitimately one of the core skills of a CEO or any leader, though!