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But it's never connected to the internet, not even for software updates. If the TV isn't connected to the internet there's no reason to update it, assuming the

But it's never connected to the internet, not even for software updates. If the TV isn't connected to the internet there's no reason to update it, assuming the TV works as expected. It's a trade off I guess. I use Home Assistant to control TVs, so kinda need the access.

HelloUsername 9d ago
Again, what I mean is, even if you're able to block all these things, the company LG is still secretly and actively trying to collect and process user data, without user awareness or consent.
- _flux 9d ago
  Actually what I wanted from the video was impact of user consent, but it doesn't seme to cover this: what happens if you accept nothing, or the minimal set of consent (so not including audio) of licenses to allow you to run third-party apps? I recall there are four checkboxes to check. My guess is: not much.
kungp 9d ago
What if you sell the TV? Can you clear the data with a factory reset so it's not just uploaded when a new user connects it?
uneoneuno 9d ago
Have you noticed that on many home routers there is now a default open, sometimes password protective network named AT&T or Cox Wi-Fi? That’s the backhaul. The TV will join that automatically without asking you because they have an agreement with the network provider. This is how tons of devices phone home now. You don’t ever need to add a device on your network for it to have internet. If there’s a partner Wi-Fi network anywhere, it’ll push through that.
- nickthegreek 9d ago
  which home router?
- ButlerianJihad 9d ago
  Joining that network from a new device always presents a captive portal that requires the credentials of my ISP account, so how does that work for you? Where is a web link indicating partnerships, and compatible hardware lists? My ISP does not sell any TV sets.
- jrmg 9d ago
  The TV will join that automatically without asking you because they have an agreement with the network provider. This seems far fetched to me. Have you seen evidence or reliable reporting of this?
  - deleted 9d ago
    [deleted]
  - figglestar 9d ago
    Why is this more far fetched than LG smart TVs recording audio while pretending to be off and caching the results waiting for an opportunity to exfiltrate the precious data? We're in a "if they can they will" world with this stuff. Comcast sets up a secondary wifi network on their routers in your home that they use as the backhaul for smartphones. Why wouldn't they make a deal with LG or whoever to use that data? We've already established they'll do about a half-a-Stuxnet to get at this data, you're telling me they won't do a couple bulk deals with common ISPs?
    - jrmg 9d ago
      Okay, even if you don’t agree with me that it’s far fetched, claims of ‘X is doing Y’ usually require some evidence that X is doing Y to be considered credible.
    - 8fingerlouie 9d ago
      Why go through all that trouble of spoofing MAC addresses or assuming it will always be able to connect to an open WiFi network. 5G connectivity is cheap. You can put a 5G modem in pretty much any device for $10 or less, and pay roughly $2/year in subscription fees. My local water utility with ~900 subscribers pays $2/year for 5G connectivity for water meters, and I have no doubt you can get it much cheaper at scale. They don't even have to tell you about the 5G modem. It could exclusively be used for exfiltrating data about your viewing habits. It's virtually undetectable and more or less impossible to block. The TV could behave nice on the Wifi, you can block all the DNS servers you like, it would still be able to phone home.
- 8fingerlouie 9d ago
  They tried that in Denmark a decade ago (or more). Enabled a "public wifi" on all home routers to provide wifi coverage for that company's customers everywhere. They gave every assurance that it would be secure, completely separate from the users own network, and the bandwidth consumed would be added on top of whatever the user had a contract for. It took a couple of days after launch before somebody managed to gain access to someone's private network from the public network and they shut it down again and never opened it again. Anyway, I may be spoiled from living in Denmark, but I'm using my own router, which is an option when ordering, so I'm fairly certain nobody is sharing additional wifi hotspots. And it's not just me. The majority of people I know use some kind of 3rd party router with their ISP. Granted, some of them just use whatever the ISP sends them, but even then I haven't ever seen any additional wifi networks, and the ISP prints the router admin password on the box itself, so you can poke around if you like (though the ISP has a backdoor, which is also why 3rd party routers are a thing).
baby_souffle 9d ago
LG has a cereal port on most of their televisions and monitors. There are quirks and bugs in some models but the general packet structure is simple and it's pretty straightforward to get an ESP32 with ESP home talking to the monitor.

HelloUsername 9d ago

Again, what I mean is, even if you're able to block all these things, the company LG is still secretly and actively trying to collect and process user data, without user awareness or consent.

_flux 9d ago
Actually what I wanted from the video was impact of user consent, but it doesn't seme to cover this: what happens if you accept nothing, or the minimal set of consent (so not including audio) of licenses to allow you to run third-party apps? I recall there are four checkboxes to check. My guess is: not much.

kungp 9d ago

What if you sell the TV? Can you clear the data with a factory reset so it's not just uploaded when a new user connects it?

uneoneuno 9d ago

Have you noticed that on many home routers there is now a default open, sometimes password protective network named AT&T or Cox Wi-Fi? That’s the backhaul. The TV will join that automatically without asking you because they have an agreement with the network provider. This is how tons of devices phone home now. You don’t ever need to add a device on your network for it to have internet. If there’s a partner Wi-Fi network anywhere, it’ll push through that.

nickthegreek 9d ago
which home router?
ButlerianJihad 9d ago
Joining that network from a new device always presents a captive portal that requires the credentials of my ISP account, so how does that work for you? Where is a web link indicating partnerships, and compatible hardware lists? My ISP does not sell any TV sets.
jrmg 9d ago
The TV will join that automatically without asking you because they have an agreement with the network provider. This seems far fetched to me. Have you seen evidence or reliable reporting of this?
- deleted 9d ago
  [deleted]
- figglestar 9d ago
  Why is this more far fetched than LG smart TVs recording audio while pretending to be off and caching the results waiting for an opportunity to exfiltrate the precious data? We're in a "if they can they will" world with this stuff. Comcast sets up a secondary wifi network on their routers in your home that they use as the backhaul for smartphones. Why wouldn't they make a deal with LG or whoever to use that data? We've already established they'll do about a half-a-Stuxnet to get at this data, you're telling me they won't do a couple bulk deals with common ISPs?
  - jrmg 9d ago
    Okay, even if you don’t agree with me that it’s far fetched, claims of ‘X is doing Y’ usually require some evidence that X is doing Y to be considered credible.
  - 8fingerlouie 9d ago
    Why go through all that trouble of spoofing MAC addresses or assuming it will always be able to connect to an open WiFi network. 5G connectivity is cheap. You can put a 5G modem in pretty much any device for $10 or less, and pay roughly $2/year in subscription fees. My local water utility with ~900 subscribers pays $2/year for 5G connectivity for water meters, and I have no doubt you can get it much cheaper at scale. They don't even have to tell you about the 5G modem. It could exclusively be used for exfiltrating data about your viewing habits. It's virtually undetectable and more or less impossible to block. The TV could behave nice on the Wifi, you can block all the DNS servers you like, it would still be able to phone home.
8fingerlouie 9d ago
They tried that in Denmark a decade ago (or more). Enabled a "public wifi" on all home routers to provide wifi coverage for that company's customers everywhere. They gave every assurance that it would be secure, completely separate from the users own network, and the bandwidth consumed would be added on top of whatever the user had a contract for. It took a couple of days after launch before somebody managed to gain access to someone's private network from the public network and they shut it down again and never opened it again. Anyway, I may be spoiled from living in Denmark, but I'm using my own router, which is an option when ordering, so I'm fairly certain nobody is sharing additional wifi hotspots. And it's not just me. The majority of people I know use some kind of 3rd party router with their ISP. Granted, some of them just use whatever the ISP sends them, but even then I haven't ever seen any additional wifi networks, and the ISP prints the router admin password on the box itself, so you can poke around if you like (though the ISP has a backdoor, which is also why 3rd party routers are a thing).

baby_souffle 9d ago

LG has a cereal port on most of their televisions and monitors. There are quirks and bugs in some models but the general packet structure is simple and it's pretty straightforward to get an ESP32 with ESP home talking to the monitor.